HADD training plan

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23/11/2012 at 09:55

Keir, thanks for the Hadd document - saved for prosperity. Hope the sore throat doesn't turn into the lurgy.

Another thing to remember is that Hadd's subject Joe was an experienced talented runner. That's why he got to 80% and 83% very quickly:

"A little over 5 years ago I coached Joe to two 2.27 marathons. We had expected the second race (some 6 months after the first) to be sub-2.25, but raceday proved to be extremely wild and windy and Joe ran his heart out and yet just broke his earlier 2.27 by a bare 2 seconds."

 

23/11/2012 at 10:02

Whats the conclusion then?

23/11/2012 at 10:09
spen71 wrote (see)

My take on this is.   Run all miles at 70% to you get upto your target mileage so reducing the chance of injury.   Then move it over to 75% and then finally add the sub LT.

...or two. 

...and then once your pace with no drift at 83% has plateaued, push it up a little.

But your summary in the box works for me

23/11/2012 at 10:12

Don't think there is a technical conclusion. Everybody's different. One approach may not be right for all runners. That's why i won't give advice until I know someones background/experience etc.

The bottom line is enjoyment. We will enjoy it more if we're not injured. And we will also enjoy it more if we see some improvement. Generally speaking, for less experienced runners a good spate of 70% stuff is a good start. And has spen states, moving up in time to 75% and beyond. I think it's probably not a good idea to set long term plans in concrete, maybe planning the next 6 weeks only.

Any other "conclusions"?

 

23/11/2012 at 10:27
Brian. wrote (see)

Any other "conclusions"?

1. IMHO 65% is too slow for anyone other than absolute beginners or when recovering from injury / a marathon.

2.Despite all my best intentions, I continue to over think my running.

Perhaps I need to paint 'Just 'f...ing do it' on my bedroom ceiling, so it is the first thing I see every morning!  

23/11/2012 at 10:36
spen71 wrote (see)

Whats the conclusion then?

Have you plan and stick to it and don't read to many forum post and get confused and think oh S**t !!  am I running too slow/fast ? too much/not enough? WHR/MHR? Hadd/P&D? 

I am off for a run.....of some kind 

 

 

23/11/2012 at 10:39

frustratingly, when I run slowly I feel like i'm plodding the ground more, it feels less natural, less graceful, and harder to maintain good form. but i can plod on like this for hours.

when i run more quickly i feel brighter, lighter, more in control of my form, but i can only continue this for a short time because my legs start to tire and my breathing becomes laboured.

it's so tempting when out for a run to let the slow pace creep upwards because it feels more biomechanically comfortable, but then i guess i'm not optimising the aerobic training benefit.

the holy grail for me is for the form and lightness of the second type of running to feel similar in effort to the first type. i'm blindly trusting that covering lots of slow miles over time will do this.

23/11/2012 at 10:40

No real conclusion Brian - however, being 53 and running marathons when I was in my twenties I was in for a real shock last year when I took up running again 12 months ago (I didn't realise how bad 30 years of couch potato work was for me). So when I started again I knew I had some work to do - little did I realise just how much.

It was very easy to make quick progress and complete 2 HM's in the first 9 months and get a 5% improvement for my 2nd. But at what cost?? Injury was the cost. I didn't realise that my body was so prone to it at this age when all I had to go on was how I felt 30 years ago (which at the time was 'invincible'). So after spending a fair bit of money on physio to get me through my first HM's I decided I needed to reign back a bit and look for a program that would allow me to get what I wanted out of my running - and thats when I found HADD.

Initially I tried HADD before my 2nd HM (June this year) and realised I needed more time to see this through and went back to the old regime of harder training and visits to my sports physio to get a 'quick fix'. Now I'm fully converted and committed to HADD - I may not get as much mileage in as I want but what I am doing I am thoroughly enjoying. I love the stats and want to make improvements and I know even though at first it was 'mega - difficult' keeping that HR where it was supposed to be (down in my boots) I am now 'feeling' the benefits.

And so if I do have any conclusion it is this - almost anyone willing to put the time and effort (and above all patience) into HADD will reap the rewards in the long term. Running at 75% and less HAS had a beneficial effect not only on my aerobic capacity but also my wallet!! I can hardly wait to move up to 80% - but wait I must until that magic 9 -10 miles at constant pace and HR lands in my lap.

Keep the faith

23/11/2012 at 10:48

Think I will take rowing up.  Must be easier , hang on their is the pete plan!

23/11/2012 at 11:25
Keir wrote (see)
Brian. wrote (see)

Any other "conclusions"?

1. IMHO 65% is too slow for anyone other than absolute beginners or when recovering from injury / a marathon. 

It's all relative ... 2 hours at 65% will be "aerobically better" that 50 min at 75% ... and 2 hours at 75% may be too hard-going if you have a sub-LT planned the next day, in which case 65% may be more appropriate.

Also, the more you run at low HR, the faster the pace at that HR ... so it's actually much more frustrating for beginners to run at 65% than it is for hard-core Haddites.

23/11/2012 at 11:35

BD2000, Thanks for the background. Glad you are enjoying it. Myself, I'm not far your junior at 51. I came to running in my early thirties, after realising that I wasn't enjoying footie anymore. Took up marathons in 1997 (3:06) and then tried in vain for 10 years to go sub-3. I discovered HR training in 2005, and that together with the help of the RW sub-3 thread, did my first sub 3 hours in 2007, and have not gone above 3 hours in the 6 since 2007. I coached football for 7 years. And I now coach cricket and help out at my running club leading groups of beginners. I have also run my own distance running course, and donated the proceeds back to my club. I have set lots of personal marathon schedules in the past, and love all the training talk.

My current goals are: 1. to be UK ranked (at the end of the year) in the top 20 for marathon. 2. Sub-80 HM 3. Sub-60 10M

I am currently training for the Brass Monkey (HM in York Jan 20th), and I then have a bash at a 10miler in Feb (Snake Lane). My long term plans are next marathon in Autumn 2013 (not sure which one yet - hoping Berlin).

DrDan, agree totally.

 

23/11/2012 at 11:41
I was just thinking that anyone actually working and running today is going to log in later and think WTF! I love this this thread...
23/11/2012 at 11:51

I've posted this before but it's quite a while ago. I think it's worth posting again though, given there are quite a few newbies and runners dipping in and out.

Hadd is novel to most runners, new and old. The running to HR and time rather than pace and miles to most is very refreshing. And with this novelty value comes a great deal of enthusiasm. This in itself is fine but the enthusiasm can lead to the runner getting carried away. Because running at lower HRs is less stressful, it feels like there is less necessity for rest/recovery etc and this can in turn lead to over indulgence, more miles and injury. Be careful to get the TLC in as well. By this I mean general maintenance - massage, stretching and strength&conditioning.

Also take care to adhere to the correct recovery procedures where necessary. Next post will include a useful document, the detail may be known to most but will act as a refresher.

23/11/2012 at 11:52

World Class Athlete Recovery – What Mo does after hard training and racing! 

The following is a guide to how to recover from our hard training sessions and racing. 

Some of it you will be able to do all after every session, some of it will only be possible on a weekend, but the more of it you can incorporate into your training the better. 

World class athletes spend many hours a day working just on recovery. It can take up to 48 hours to recover from a hard session or race. If you want to be the best, train like the best... 

1.) Re-hydrate – after finishing your race or session rehydrate with sports drink. This needs to be done within 10mins of finishing 

2.) Re-fuel – a light snack which contains both carbohydrates and protein to get fuel back in to your muscles. A chocolate milk drink is ideal. If you don’t like chocolate milk, find an alternative. You want something with a carbohydrate-to-protein ratio of 4:1. 

3.) Stretch – This should be 10-15mins of stretching and should be done after you have re-hydrated. It can be at the same time as you snack. Stretch all your muscles out – you should find that you are much more flexible than when you started your warm-up! 

4.) Ice Bath – are you tough enough? This is a great way of helping muscles recover. You can either sit in a bath of cold water for 10mins or run the cold shower on your legs for 15-20mins. Another method is hot/cold treatment 30 seconds hot shower, 30seconds cold shower continuous for 10-15mins. Try them all out and see what works best for you. 

5.) Eat – Within 1-2hours of finishing eat properly. A well balanced meal with carbs, veg and protein. 

6.) Sleep – have a power nap or at the very least put your feet up and relax for an hour. 

7.) Bath – About an hour before bed have a hot bath with muscle soak in it. 

8.) Stretch – again! 

9.) Sleep – Have a good night’s sleep.

23/11/2012 at 11:54

I must confess to not being able to man-up to the ice bath!

23/11/2012 at 12:32

I'd be interested to know, now that he has baby twins, if Mo manages to get in stages 6 - 9 after every session!

23/11/2012 at 13:01

Dr Dan -

Also, the more you run at low HR, the faster the pace at that HR ... so it's actually much more frustrating for beginners to run at 65% than it is for hard-core Haddites.

I couldn't agree more - it was hard enough in the beginning to get below 75% let alone 65%. I can't get below 70% yet, so 65 is still a way off.


23/11/2012 at 14:08
The ice shower on the legs is a good idea, I think I could put up with that for 20 mins.
Edited: 23/11/2012 at 14:11
23/11/2012 at 14:14
Brian. wrote (see)
My current goals are: 1. to be UK ranked (at the end of the year) in the top 20 for marathon. 2. Sub-80 HM 3. Sub-60 10M

I am currently training for the Brass Monkey (HM in York Jan 20th), and I then have a bash at a 10miler in Feb (Snake Lane). My long term plans are next marathon in Autumn 2013 (not sure which one yet - hoping Berlin).

Very nice goals Brian.! 

I will be joining you at Brass Monkey and Snake Lane ... sub-90 and sub-67 are my target times.

Still haven't started back on the road after Sunday's race ... fully recovered but have been over-run with work, family life and other exra-curricular activities, so the Chick's CNBA fairy has moved in . Current plan is to tick over and then get started properly in December.

23/11/2012 at 14:20
Brian. wrote (see)

My current goals are: 1. to be UK ranked (at the end of the year) in the top 20 for marathon. 2. Sub-80 HM 3. Sub-60 10M

I share your goal 2 and 3 Brian. What time would have been required to achieve goal 1 this year? If you are aiming sub 2.50 then we share goal 1 as well 

Funny enough I was just thinking about an autumn marathon again. It would be hard to argue for another marathon when entering / getting to Abingdon is so easy and fast.

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