HADD training plan

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28/11/2012 at 17:16

Brian - correct. 50M per week and i'm doing 8M sub LT, the rest is easy

Keir - yes, once a week. I was doing them once a week in the summer in the build up to a HM at end of Sept. Started them again last week after 4 weeks of 50M easy.

Tek - bolarks !!! Good luck with it

Chick - sorry to hear that. Just reminded me i swerved to avoid somebody on a pathway this morning and nearly ended up in a ditch


Edited: 28/11/2012 at 17:17
28/11/2012 at 17:44
Brian- to be honesty I'm wondering now weather I may just be better having recovery runs based on pace. I'm pretty good in terms of being disciplined with myself pace/hr wise so tomorrow for example I may just do my normal days mileage but no faster than 8min/mile or 65%. Whichever comes first.

GazOC- cheers, on 52mile so far this week.

Ashman- sounds like your having same thoughts as I had when I first started hadding, I was going along at 8min+ pace an questioning what I'm doing. TAKE NOTE: I'm glad as hell I kept on with it though because 70% originally got me 8min+, now its between 7:00-7:20pace mostly for same effort. PROGRESS

Nightnurse- sounds your having issue that I had a couple of weeks ago when I had to keep picking up the pace slightly to maintain the effort. You must be improving I guess
28/11/2012 at 18:08
Mace- good effort there on the LT run I had another go at one today aswell. I'm interested to see how yourself and others get on with these LT runs.

I found my Lactate threshold run a bit tougher this week with me legs feeling slightly battered so (thought i'd get the customary excuse in) pace averaged 6:22 compared to last weeks 6:13 although this week I did 60mins-9.4mile
Split Summary??
1) - 1m - 6:07(6:07/m) - 154bpm avge - 163bpm max - 117cal??
2) - 1m - 6:16(6:16/m) - 161bpm avge - 165bpm max - 120cal??
3) - 1m - 6:14(6:14/m) - 160bpm avge - 163bpm max - 119cal??
4) - 1m - 6:18(6:18/m) - 159bpm avge - 161bpm max - 119cal??
5) - 1m - 6:33(6:33/m) - 160bpm avge - 162bpm max - 121cal??
6) - 1m - 6:19(6:19/m) - 159bpm avge - 164bpm max - 120cal??
7) - 1m - 6:30(6:30/m) - 159bpm avge - 162bpm max - 121cal??
8) - 1m - 6:36(6:36/m) - 158bpm avge - 163bpm max - 121cal??
9) - 1m - 6:33(6:33/m) - 159bpm avge - 161bpm max - 121cal??
10) - 0.41m - 2:39(6:23/m) - 161bpm avge - 164bpm max - 50cal
28/11/2012 at 18:15
Oh I also had a 2 an a bit mile warm up/down to loosen legs off. So totalled 13.76mile in about 1:34. Well happy to be doing sessions like that.

Keep hadding away people.
28/11/2012 at 19:44

AtD - the pace there is awesome, but as we all know, that is just relative. The thing which is really impressive for me is to see the consistency of the avge HR and also how close max is at every split (other than the first, for obvious reasons). To peak at 1 -2% above ave HR for each mile is a really impressive even pacing of effort. 

Edited: 28/11/2012 at 20:01
28/11/2012 at 23:29

Hi all,

wow this thread moves along very quickly.

In truth I'm struggling to keep my pace down, I feel really comfortable running at around 10-10:30 pace but the heart rate is up in the 150's 80+%.

Tonight I went out for a 90 minute run and decided not to check the heart rate or pace and just run on feel, see below for stats.

Split Time   Avg Moving  Pace Avg  HR  Max HR

1                10:44.80      10:32:00 152   169

2                10:16.00      10:16:00 147   153

3                10:08.30      10:09:00 150   158

4                10:15.50      10:17:00 150   154

5                10:04.20      10:00:00 154   171

6                10:28.50      10:23:00 154   158

7                10:28.90      10:22:00 154   156

8                10:15.00      10:09:00 154   159

9                10:45.50      10:39:00 153   160

10              01:29.90       10:04:00 154   156

Summary   01:34:57.00   10:18:00 152   171

as you can see from above this is too high for Hadding, is there any benefit running at this pace? if I keep running at this pace will the HR come down eventually so I can then start hadding properly.

your thoughts and views will be greatly appreciated.

Edited: 28/11/2012 at 23:33
29/11/2012 at 09:08

 Hi StewartC, Welcome. It seems to me that you have a decision to make.

1. Do you want to improve in the most efficient manner, with the least likelihood of injury?

2. Do you want to continue enjoying your running at the same (or similar) pace?

I am guessing that the answer is no. 1. Read back if you haven't already, as this will explain the problems that arise when starting out with HR training.

The bottom line (and very simply) is that to make the maximal aerobic improvement, it is better and safer to carry out the majority of your runs between 70 and 75% until you see improvement in pace and drift.

29/11/2012 at 09:10

I stumbled upon this on the net recently. It's another angle on the Hadd approach, and makes for interesting reading.



29/11/2012 at 09:16

Stewart - are you certain you have correctly calculated your max HR? 

I'll check the link later Brian. I've got lots of meetings later on so it will give me something to do! 

Child no. 3 woke at 4.15am and I took the opportunity to 'reassess' the wisdom of my 5.30 run. Decided rest would be best. 

It's cold out there today.

29/11/2012 at 09:37

Keir, Isn't that whats called natures alarm clock? Come on... man-up!

29/11/2012 at 15:59

8miles incl 20mins tempo today for me. Target was 6:06 pace. My legs let me down a little to come in at 6:20 pace. Got to start somewhere......

29/11/2012 at 17:21


Thanks for that link. Very interesting with some good resources. My take from reading is that I should really consider my running form. I'm the guy that just runs. I do try to stay relaxed during the runs and maintain good posture, but beyond that how I go down hills, etc, is just how I do it. The idea of finishing a marathon and not being sore is attractive. Not sure I could run so perfect as to acheive that though.

The other thing I noticed is that by mafftone or one of the other calculations, my aerobic upper limit would be 146 (mafftone) or even low 150s. My my MaxHR is 200 so I have locked my range from 140 (70%) to 150 (75%). I have been trying to keep most runs either right at or below 140 (which is finally possible again on most days) and then to move up to 145-148 for my slightly harder efforts during this pre-ILTHR phase (read not burning the cake stage).

I'm off for my midday run.

30/11/2012 at 11:07

VT, I wouldn't get hung up on form. I think that if we were at the sharp end then focussing on form would be worth the effort and associated pain in changing the way we run. But as we are not making a living from it and, are probably a little long in the tooth for fundamental change, if I were you I would just think "run tall". As with cricket, any technical aspect is simpler to address if there is only one (or at the very most 2) things to think about. If you tried to remember them all you would only confuse the issue and end up losing the will. I would suggest that posture (engaging abs) is as far as we should go, and thus running tall is maybe the best thing to think about enabling us to improve posture. I know someone who is trying to improve form at the moment, and he is really struggling with tight hamstrings. He is pretty flat-footed and thumps down with a bit of a heel strike.

How did the run go?


30/11/2012 at 11:56

VT - I also found that article interesting and useful but like you found the various measures of the aerobic zone confusing and contradictory. 

With regard to running form, I do agree with Brian and think that focusing on form is probably more damaging and confusing than good. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! That said, trying to improve 1 aspect at a time isn't too bad an idea. Running tall is a good one. One of my frm faults is 'orangatan arms' - I've always run with my hands below my hips. For the past few months I am really focusing on keping my hands navel height or above, hardly moving my arms and trying to relax in this position. I have found this improves my cadence, lowers my stride length and means I am heel striking much less. It has taken several months, but I am just about starting to find I am catching my knuckles draggin on the ground much less and keeping this form for longer without thinking about it. 

30/11/2012 at 14:02

Lots of good running going on.

Andy: you are my role model . I wanna be like you and go from 9mm to 8s and possibly 7s

Stewart: like the others said - 70 or 75% runs are the way to go when starting with HR training. Be prepared for weeks and weeks of veeery slow runs. But it will pay off in the end and the improvement will come. Patience.

Running form. Oops . Mine is pretty rubbish especially when I get tired. My core goes entirely and I bend over in the middle... I really have to focus to maintain proper form but gosh, it's hard work.

On the upside: knee pain has gone . The bruise is still massive but it doesn't hurt anymore so I will attempt a short run tomorrow and perhaps a longer one on Sunday and then resume full training as of Monday. Last week was a 54 mile one and that's where I wanna be back at ...

30/11/2012 at 14:30

Great news Chick. Relief eh?

As long as I'm not getting any injuries (theres fate well and truly tempted!) I'm loathe to mess with my running form. As Brian says mostly we're not trying to shave a couple of seconds off a 10K PB, just hoping for steady improvment while not getting injured. 

30/11/2012 at 14:50

Gaz, As Keir says "if it aint broke...".

Good news Chick, take it easy for 2 or 3 days.

Recovery 7.3 miles. Cold and sunny. Bit icy on the towpath, but easily negotiable. Hoping to get out for 90-100mins tomorrow morning. Have a good weekend everybody.


30/11/2012 at 15:14

I've got 5-6 easy miles planned for this evening, day off tomorrow and then Wrexham 10K on Sunday to take me just over 60 miles for the week.

I've had a bit of a cold all week thats just clearing today, the effect on my running times at 70% HR was quite noticeable over the last couple of days and has put around 30 secs a mile on my pace. 

30/11/2012 at 15:35

Good luck on Sunday Gaz. Hope the lurgy has cleared properly by then.

30/11/2012 at 16:24

Had a really annoying club run on Wednesday, the leader decided to make it nice and hilly and when I say hilly I mean hilly, remember I live in Devon , had a couple of nice flat miles were I managed to keep HR nice and steady at 80% for 8-8-15 min miles which is what I hoped but the massive climbs saw it rise to 85-87% and pace drop to 9.30 s..and if you are a club runner you know what the last mile back to club house is like , did that in 7.20 no one wants to be last !!! oh well over at least the company and grub in the pub after was worth it . Not sure about the club runs, shall I keep the as one 1 effort of the week for the time being and ignore HR ? I really enjoy them ...I think 

Back on track today nice easy 15.5 miles in 2 hours 25, max hr 75 % ,ave hr 71% longest run and time on feet for yonks !!! and felt I could have gone further , only just about managed to stay on feet though bloody slippery out there, although I LOVE running in the cold !!


Chick , take it easy hope the run goes well

ADT awesome  that is some pace for 70%

Gaz good luck Sunday with that race at the end of a 60 mile week !!!!

Brian nice tempo pace !!  off  to read your link now, finding this HR stuff fascinating .

Edited: 30/11/2012 at 16:29
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