JohnnyThere was a very popular thread all about Hadd, etc titled "Base trainining help needed". I just tried to search it out to provide the link, but search isn't working at present.
Best to use the advanced searched in Google.
eg Hadd site:runnersworld.co.uk
gets lots of good threads
I follow "Hadd's" approach to training and am doing a marathon in less than 2 weeks time. I feel I've only scratched the surface and that there's plently more to come.
There's a big Hadd thread here: http://www.fetcheveryone.com/viewtopic.php?id=31192&page=1
Unfortunately, "Hadd" (aka John Walsh) died last week of a heart attack whiel running, aged only 56.
Forum search now working again; here is the link to the thread that I posted about earlier.
Sorry to hear of his early demise...
I made big strides having read the Hadd stuff. It motivated me to run 7 days per week. I was a little sceptical at first, as the schedule I followed had no fast running in it. I guess this fact means that you can run for longer because of not needing "recovery runs". This obviously meant more miles eventually too. Generally the 65-70% runs initially are quite slow, infact runners starting the hadd stuff regularly referred to these as almost walking. But once these extend to 70mins duration on a regular basis, the pace for the HR increases, as the lactate threshold rises.
Also I remember (I started Hadd in 2005) being thoroughly enthused and motivated by the novelty that running for time and HR brought, rather than thinking about speed and distance.
The big improvement for me came when I added the 2 90min runs. 10mins warm-up, 70mins@80%, 10mins warm-down. These sessions, I believe, were key to me improving my marathon time.
The most amazing thing was, when it came to racing. I was nervous having done about 12 weeks of Hadd, and the realisation that I would be running at an intensity that I had't gone any where near in the last 3 months!!!!!
But needless to say, once the legs got going, the race went well. And having finished felt as if I could've done another 10k!!
I would thoroughly recommend the Hadd stuff, especially for beginners, and definitely for those wishing to step up to, or improve their marathon times.
Brian. wrote (see)
Well I've just spent a reasonably long time re-reading the original 25 page HADD training document and I think I'll be using it in some shape or form in my come-back to running fitness. Watch this space, but I'm a good few weeks off strapping on the Garmin and squeezing that toothpaste tube just yet.
JB - sorry, just read your post. I've never put HADD training into actual practise so others may have more to say about your stats based on experience, but I do understand a bit about HR. IMO it's no great surprise that you couldn't get up to target HR over the course of a mile if most of the previous running had been at a relatively easier pace. You're bound to be able to hit higher HR over a continuous, maximal 5 mile effort.
One thing I do understand about HADD training is the need for perserverance, patience and consistency. I can only suggest you stick with the easy paced training, repeat the test further down the line as prescribed and see how the stats compare.
Phil makes a good point about the time required to get the HR up to a decent level. Also the fact that you took longer recoveries would affect it, as the Hr would've dropped a few more beats in the extra 30s or so.
It's a start JB. Now to start your training. First things first - concentrate on building the lower intensity runs up to a minimum of 70mins duration. Then add in the 2 90min runs.
DR Dan, yes I agree on the weekly mileage. Infact may be better to just incorporate 1 90min run initially, whilst building the fitness. Then adding the 2nd later?
That may be the way to start ... ar perhaps to do two sessions but keep them shorter. I jumped in to the ILTHR sessions (12 miles, with 10.5 miles at sub-LT) once I was running 50 mpw but was probably not quite ready. May and June showed great improvement in average pace for HR (145 bpm is my 81-82% maxHR) and the drift came down. I over-did things in June however ... 250+ miles running (but also 136 miles on the bike and 6.5 mills of front crawl) and ended up with a hamstring niggle which meant July was reduced down to just 95 miles. However, I think you can see the progress (the two in brackets are on a different route, the rest are identical) ... drift came right down and I feel that had I continued in July, things might have improved further.
23/05/2011 7:39/m 145 bpm(31/05/2011 7:39/m 144)07/06/2011 7:29/m 14410/06/2011 7:24/m 14414/06/2011 7:31/m 14317/06/2011 7:13/m 14321/06/2011 7:13/m 14324/06/2011 7:14/m 139 11/07/2011 7:20/m 14515/07/2011 7:14/m 145
After niggly July, I had to concentrate on getting my mileage back up ... and especially my long runs as I have a mara in October. So the sub-LT sessions took 2nd place and became more infrequent to ensure my legs were able to get me around the long runs.
19/08/2011 7:14/m 14426/08/2011 7:07/m 144 09/09/2011 7:16/m 14521/09/2011 7:21/m 140(27/09/2011 7:36/m 140)
I'm hopeful that the mileage over August and September has left me more robust and that, if I recover from the mara, I'll be able to pick up the sub-LT sessiosn again.
PhilPub wrote (see)
DrD, What I found with the 80% runs was when I did them regularly, the initial improvemnt wasquick but after about 4 to 5 weeks of one per week, the improvement decreased, and I hit a plateau pace.At this point, if I was training for a marathon, I would up these runs to 83/84% and this would normally equate to my eventual marathon pace.I haven't been doing the 80% runs hardly at all, similar reasons to you, I have been injured Feb to June, and then after gradually building back the mileage (I am doing Abingdon marathon in 2 weeks - eek!!!!), I was distracted by the need to get in the longer runs and found it difficult recovering enough to fit them in.
I am also entered into VLM 2012, so I will definitely incorporate the 80% runs into my build-up to the spring marathon.
Dr.Dan wrote (see)
Looking forward to seeing you progress PP!
Me too, Dr.D. It will definitely be an exercise in patience because part of me is itching to get back to training with my old club 'b' group, which has been flourishing in my absence, but I want to be in tip-top aerobic condition before I set foot on a track again. HADD might just give me the discipline I need to get there.
Looking at the racing calendar, I've already completely discounted any XC - I can't see all that up and down being much good for hip injury rehab anyway - so effectively I've got a good few months to make a sensible build-up to target Spring/Summer road racing.
Give or take the odd try-out I've not run properly since end of last year. Without weighing myself regularly I reckon I put on a couple of stone at worst, but around half of this has come off over the past 4/5 months over which time I've managed 2,000 or so miles on the bike and regular gym work. I'm gonna keep the cycling up and will be racing on the track next year so in a way this will help with building the running back up at a sensible rate, cos I can stay in reasonable aerobic shape in the mean time.
Wow! Great discipline and focus to get on the bike. Wish I was able to focus like that - I tend to sulk when I'm injured. So the comeback is always that much harder.
So I guess you intend to do run-bike-run events, are they duathlons?
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