indoors versus outdoors

Can't claim any skill in the relevant scientific analysis, but just from experience the thing that I find makes treadmill running really hard is the need to concentrate and maintain an absolutely even pace. If you are going at reasonable speed (eg 15-16 kmh), you can't afford to lose your balance or falter or you risk crashing into something knobbly and metallic behind you, which makes it one hell of a mental effort for any length of time. I wonder if that, combined with the absolutely even pace, may even account for some of the greater speed you typically seem to be able to achieve, although from the physiological effects described by those in the know above, which I find in practice, it clearly wouldn't be just that.
Personally I dislike it, but given work commitments it's that or nothing.

Awww Spud.
You really started something here!
Impey

Well in the interests of science I went into the loony bin last night (who else would choose to run on a t/mill in a hot, non-air conditioned small gym when they could be outside).....

And I take back a lot of what I said in my penultimate post ......but not the way you'll like it Swerve!

You don't hardly push off from your back (ie grounded) foot at all on the t/mill - it really lands in front of you - is dragged backwards and this action then makes your pelvis rotate forward on the other side which swings the leg forward to land and then repeat the cycle. Unequivocally - energy expenditure is no where near as great as when the only thing moving is the road. As soon as you try to push off against the moving t/mill belt you're up against the front of the machine

Out on the road - all that moves is the runner ; on the t/mill you've got the runner and the belt that move - and the net effect is that the runner is not expending as much energy as on the road - because the treadmill does some of his work for him.


Honest

Take 1 pill 3 times a day was it....or 3 pills once a day ?

Do like me and go for 3 pills 3 times a day.

I think there's only one way to resolve this one. On the heath, at dawn, you choose - pistols or swords. I nominate kaskas as my second.

;-)

Can I use an AK47?

Blimey this thread is too technical for me.
I do know however that Ingrid Kristianson did most of her Winter training an the TM by necessity - the roads are covered in frozen snow for months in Finland. She did OK.
I use the TM a lot and find that my races are faster by a large margin, but that could just be the competitive element.
Anyway I've just finished 20.2 miles on the TM as the last long run before the Blackpool marathon in two weeks. Six miles left so I'll keep my fingers crossed that it will work for me.

20.2 miles on a TM?? Now that's mind boggling!!

Good luck at Blackpool!

Thanks, I'll need it. See you at Cardiff.

Neversweat, how can you do 20M on a tready???

Good luck with the marathon!

I started this tread because I find it really difficult to train on a TM. I will do a 10k minutes faster outside ( about 6 minutes faster with the same effort.)
On a TM it's so hard... I feel like I run and run and don't go anywhere. The mileage clock just doesn't move.

Well it is difficult but there are some advantages to the treadmill.
Firstly I know that I want to do the 20.2 in 3 hours to give me a chance of 4 hours for the full distance. I then start slowly at 6.2 mph and build up to reach 10 in about 92 minutes. The aim then is to reach 13.2 miles in 2 hours with the TM running at 6.8 mph. That ensures 20 miles in three hours. I then pick the speed up over the last six miles to achieve the required time. Simple in theory but it does keep the mind occupied working out the necessary increases in speed.
Obviously the road is better but I just wouldn't have gone out for three hours on my own so it is better than nothing.

do not know about the ins and outs or fancy physics of treadmill running, but i am qualified to state that it is harder running on a treadmill than outside...
48 hour treadmill world record holder, 146.31 miles

Hi all, it's just been raining outside so thought I'd have a quick forum browse.

Have you ever gone for a run outside immediately after running on a treadmill? It's quite a bizarre feeling - I find i'm sort of bounding along like a nutter.

This debate sounds quite similar to the rowing machine vs real boat thing where there is quite a considerable difference in technique required even though the rowing machine still ends up being very useful in training the right muscles. Presumably that's what's important at the end of the day?

One other thing to throw in is that i find i land much more heavily on a treadmill than i do outside. Why is that?