Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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02/04/2010 at 12:15

Too soon for me to claim a part in that one I suppose! 

Well done on the PB.  Don't read too much into it if you competed well and knocked a chunk off a PB - enjoy it!

Edited: 02/04/2010 at 12:15
02/04/2010 at 12:28

I'll try....I think I had in my mind a 6min mile pace...but when I actually look at Wokingham it was actually 6mins 04 a mile average...and today was 6mins 05...so not a great difference!

Went through 5miles in just under 30 so the 5mile pb of 29:38 is next  up, Marlow on 9th May. Helps that loads from my club and loads from work are doing it too...maximum motivation!

In one way you've picked me up at the right moment, as 10miles down all my pbs should go next time out! But then perhaps the plateau caused by bad training methods will kick in, and that's when your methods will bear most fruit!

02/04/2010 at 14:17

1:00:48 confirmed

 4miler pootle Sunday

12miler easy Monday...looking forward to that now

02/04/2010 at 21:31
Moraghan what are XT,s as per you have recommended Stevie to do???
02/04/2010 at 21:46

Cross training Sawney Bean...just some stationary cycling or the like...just to keep me occupied as I'm used to running 10 times monday to friday...so to suddenly only exercise once a day on the Mon and Wed might rankle me a bit....

so the XT is a sub..until we know I can handle a bit of a step up in mileage...as basically we;re staying at 50..but a 12miler has been added on a sunday and a 6 on saturday when often i'd only do a 4 between those 2 days...

02/04/2010 at 21:56

Spot on Stevie G.

It would be great to mix some indoor rowing in there with the biking to if you have access.  Do you have a core routine worked out Steve? I have one I can throw your way. 

02/04/2010 at 22:04

I have a home stationary cycle, an abdotrimmer(!), one of those gym balls, and some free weights...which isn't a bad set of home gear I suppose, but no rowing machine...

I'm sure that little lot can be put to good use though?

To date I've done small sessions on the weights that an ex showed me, but these generally were shoulders, triceps and chest generally... Good workouts that locate the correct muscles, but I find weights tough as I like to see progress and with the mileage and naturally slim frame muscle doesn't come easily to me.

02/04/2010 at 22:12
Okay, no problem.  On the main thread I will start posting some information about non-running workouts etc.
02/04/2010 at 22:14

on the summary coaching thread? No worries...off to Manchester tomorrow for the big game v Chelsea, and then  beginning the sessions in earnest!

Looking forward to it, and hopefully will be fine enough to add either more mileage or quality soon....without getting too impatient before I've even started!

04/04/2010 at 19:48

First official session done, the 4miler that will normally be on a Monday but swapped around this week only so a 4miler today and a 12miler tomorrow, making use of the bank hol, and also swapped due to the 10mile race and long drive to Manchester and back yesterday.

 Therefore, 4miler, flat course, easy pace.

Easy pace for me should be 7:24 to 7:55. It turned out at 7:18 a mile average, but after always running at a medium to hard pace I need to re adjust to slower sessions!

Did find myself having to slow it purposely at times, as of course the natural instinct is to go faster.

Tomorrow's 12miler should be easier to keep slower, as should the 4miler when I've done a longer session the day before!

However, up and running.

04/04/2010 at 20:30

That's not too bad - remember, discipline comes in all shapes and forms!  At some point you'll be at the point where you wish you could run them slower.

Spreadsheet has been sent.  In the meantime start thinking about 3 measureable and specific goals for the 2010 season.  Any luck with those workout volumes?

04/04/2010 at 21:05

Will review and complete the spreadsheet asap, probably early Tuesday am due to not having managed to buy a decent version of Excel at home yet (poor I know)

Have an easy 12miler to get thinking of my key aims for this year...proper ones outside of my loose "improve all times" historical approach.

Trying to quantify the  sessions from my past schedule, I'd say only the efforts sessions have come close, but a mixture of the sessions not being long or focused enough, and running them by feel rather than to times has reduced their effectiveness.

In terms of the whole plan the 50 would generally have panned out as this...bit waffly I'm  afraid...

Lunchtime 4-4.5milers  (Mon to Fri)          what I would have called medium effort previously, circa 6:30 to 6:45 average pace if on the flat . If steep hills involved, the first half would perhaps be 2miles in 16-17mins, a steady mile of sub6:30 including a downhill,  and then a fast finishing last mile, sub 6:15. Often the last couple of hundred metres don ewith a sprint.

Mon and Wed Evenings       5-6miler   2miles slow, circa 8:30min miling but due largely to steep woody hills, then a couple of flat miles, pace raised to 6:45, downhill mile 6:20, and last faster mile, probably around the same, 620

 Tuesday    1mile warm up and 1 mile warm down, generally hills efforts, 3-4miles in total. Short hills being as short as 20metres, longer hills being as long as 400m. Hard to quantify as the sessions are planned by the club guy running them, but are so different each week it's hard to give an exact picture.

For the short hills, these were generally sprinting pace, and for the 400m longer hills, probably 5k effort, but obviously not pace as up a steepish hill.

These sessions have now ended and from Tue 13th the sessions will be 5k minded intervals. I requested that these be longer in length last year as we'd be doing loads of 100metres that didn't benefit much. Therefore, probably these will involve reps from 200 up to 1k. But probably no more than 3 if 1ks. Of course done at a pace much higher than 5k for the 1k, down to an outright sprint for the 200m. Main problem with these sessions is that they're to cater for an ability range of me...guys a fair bit slower, and others very much slower...so even if I do a few extras it probably doesn't suit me in a way it would against better runners.

Thursday, if hills similar to Tuesday. Otherwise could be a 9.5/10miler although I didn't do many of these.

If a 9.5miler, basically the first mile would be a warm up, at say 730ish pace, quickly settling to 7min miling throughout, and perhaps a 630 thrown in at the end. Then a lap of a 400metre field to warm down ( as well as making the distance up to 10m)

Sat was previously a rest and Sun was an easy (in my previous understanding of the word) 4-5 to make up the week's 50, starting slow up through wooded hills, down a sharp hill and a steaming last mile.

The first mile has clocked as slow as 9 1/2mins if the steepest route, and the last mile, while not religiously timed by any means probably touched as quick as 6min miling.

Hope this gives a bit of an indication. As you can tell, proper quality and planning has been largely missing and the only structure has been the total per week, although not a religious 50miles a week and 2 runs a day in the week.

Edited: 04/04/2010 at 21:10
05/04/2010 at 13:11
stevie, our times are similar so i am going to observe and replicate some of your sessions for improvement, i did 35.36 at a 10k yesterday, measured 10.05 on my garmin and slight wind against you, our HM times are almost identical
05/04/2010 at 13:54

That's good to hear Sawney Bean, as my 10k is sat on 37:03 for the moment, but that was on a poor 10k course...good to hear a 35 something is achievable off a 1hr 19 half.

Feel free to observe and add anything you can along the way...

 Did my 12.5miler easy today, and have finally loaded my forerunner 405 onto the garmin connect site to properly get splits...

easy pace is meant to start for me at 7:24 a mile...so split as follows on average just topping that at 7:26 over the full 12.5miles.(aware that 7:24 is the quickest i should be doing these and 7:55 is the slow end of the easy range) No doubt I can slow this as the distance of the run increases and the other sessions kick in. Did my best to slow it down whenever I noticed the pace was creeping up.

splits... 7:35, 7:19, 7:16, 7:19, 7:22, 7;22, 7;20, 7:15, 7:33, (steep 0.6mile hill in between these 2 readings) 8:07, 7;20, 7:17 and 3:45 for last 0.5m

Finished the 12.5m knowing I probably could have done another hour or so at that pace, and only some slight tight quads to show for it.

Will log all of this and the pbs and aims on the spreadsheet tomorrow.

Edited: 05/04/2010 at 13:58
05/04/2010 at 14:01

Stevie G

I have resent the spreadsheet in a 2003 version, hopefully that means you don't have to hold in the excitement until tuesday!

Long run doesn't look too bad - although adding 0.5m smacks a bit of brown-nosing! 

Stevie G www.miles4miles.co.uk wrote (see)

These sessions have now ended and from Tue 13th the sessions will be 5k minded intervals. I requested that these be longer in length last year as we'd be doing loads of 100metres that didn't benefit much. Therefore, probably these will involve reps from 200 up to 1k. But probably no more than 3 if 1ks. Of course done at a pace much higher than 5k for the 1k, down to an outright sprint for the 200m. Main problem with these sessions is that they're to cater for an ability range of me...guys a fair bit slower, and others very much slower...so even if I do a few extras it probably doesn't suit me in a way it would against better runners.

I know we are going to have a problem with these in the future - particularly if the pace changes according to the distance on the reps, all in the guise of a "5k minded session".  Anyway, let's wait and see.  Do you know the club sessions in advance?

Edited: 05/04/2010 at 14:02
05/04/2010 at 14:11

 Thanks for the new spreadsheet...can view tab 1 and that looks pretty good, but I can't see the other tabs yet as I have no excel yet...but I will buy this soon! Will review asap tomorrow, with the beauty being that a spreadsheet is quite subtle in an office environment!!

Route came to 12.3m not the 12 so thought I best run the extra 0.2m!

My club don't publicise the sessions in advance...but if needs be I could shoot over to the other local club who do.

Their sessions are on the below, and I'm sure you'll agree they are a lot more structured and quality than the sessions I've described.

http://www.handycrossrunners.co.uk/events.htm

The other advantage is that they have 2 runners in the 1h13 half bracket at 40, so good experienced runners, and a few just around/under my pace.

The first time I ever ran with these guys for a session it was 7x1000  (7 laps of the field) and I got it completely wrong, roasting their top guys for 2 laps, completely crumbling for the next 2 laps, and then crashing out on lap 5!

Edited: 05/04/2010 at 14:15
05/04/2010 at 15:02

Free alternative to excel

You should be able to view multiple tabs using this.(I think...)

06/04/2010 at 10:40

completed and sent back the training spreadsheet...and will keep it ticking over.

no club run tonight...so presume the 8miler is just a straight 8mile easy tonight.

(intervals restart next tue..or as earlier post can join another club for these)

06/04/2010 at 10:54

In the absence of a club session I'd definitely like to get a quality session in there tonight assuming you have the time.  I want to see how you handle two longer quality sessions (and the volume in them), the diagonals and long run in one week.

We will make this one fairly mild however as you ran 12.5 yesterday, even though that was easy for you.

So tonight will be: 

8m total:  {3m w-up || 4 * 100m strides || 5 * 1000m @ 10k pace w / 90 second jog recovery || cd}

Please don't do more than planned and keep it to 10k pace and no quicker (first rep can be a little slower which is good habit).  Going quicker than 10k pace will defeat the object of the session.

If you are finding this workout very easy reduce the jog recovery to 60 seconds but don't change anything else.  Don't gun the last one, do it at 10k pace - I want the mindset that a workout professionally done at the correct paces is more satisfying than one where you finished up by roasting yourself on the last rep.  Let's be smart, get the benefit of this workout and be ready for the next quality run.

Ideally do this on a field / trail but a track would be fine.  At this point either would be preferable to tarmac.

Enough rules? 

06/04/2010 at 11:20

sounds good.

I have a track 1.5mile away, but a field 100metres away, so will aim to do 3miles warm up round the vicinity of the field, and then hit the 1000k reps on the field as recommended.

Just to check on the 10k pace, as it isn't one we've nailed down just yet, if HM pace is 558 to 604 is the 10k pace what I've done my last 10k at (37:03 which is probably not too different from the above HM), pace) or target 10k pace which would be at least about 5:45 to 5:50a mile or around 3:36 a k?

As my half marathon is still my best respective performance it causes a little bit of confusion as to what my actual 10k pace is at the moment, as the last 10ks I've done have had hills or u turns...and all matter of excuses!

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