Moraghan Training - Stevie G

Extreme training, competitive training. On the face of it quite impressive. However, if the objective is faster racing, at what stage of the gut busting cycle does the 'pay off' occur, or is that just luck and a following wind?

Andy - thats some big mileage post vyrnwy - i have only ran 2*5m at 8mm pace.  And your normal weekly average is almost double mine.  Is your mileage this high due to marathon training and would be less miles normally?

PMJ- i think warren runs very high mileage single runs in training so 26m wont be a stretch at a reduced pace. 

Stevie G . wrote (see)

17x1100 at what must be between his 5k and 10k paces is plain mentalism. I got the impression that a coach had set it for him too...must be a coach from the school of pain.

You cannot make assessments on one session alone. 

RicF wrote (see)

Extreme training, competitive training. On the face of it quite impressive. However, if the objective is faster racing, at what stage of the gut busting cycle does the 'pay off' occur, or is that just luck and a following wind?

Totally disagree. I've had some pretty good improvements since coming off of this thread (of course I obviously keep a look in or I wouldn't be posting now) and I attribute that to me concentrating on my own training and not that of others.

On this basis it is not competitive training, except for the internal competition I have with myself. I did pretty much all of this session on my own (as did I the 17 x 1000m and 25 x 700m the week before). Yes these are hard sessions, but then my easy sessions are very easy. I rarely go under 7 minutes pace on easy run. These are usually performed closer to 8 minutes. My coach is not from the 'School of Pain' in fact we operate cautiously. He suffered from overtraining syndrome in the past and so, if I feel like I need a rest I get a rest. Tonights session for example is 5 x 3000 in 14m15 with 2minutes rest...so pretty much an easy session.

My goals are very different from most on this thread (with the exception of maybe Warren who has done a few ultras). For example Ric, you would never do an easy marathon, whereas I am doing 5 hour runs once a month (hitting marathon @ 3h30 ish).

So let's make any assessment on a single session, let's look a little longer term. Can I consistently do this sort of session? Of course not, my body is not strong enough to do this every week...which is why I won't be doing it every week.

My training seems to be working for me at the moment, maybe you should give it a try 

Andy, standard I mean if you actually keep to the 10k pace...i expect some particular monsters just smash the reps as fast as possible, quoting reps are an "output" not an "input".

personally the once or twice I've done 16x400 it felt perfectly fast enough at 10k pace!

exactly Ric...i think anyone who repeatedly trains high mileage week after week year after year will have some aches and niggles unless they are amazingly efficient or just plain lucky.

Everyone has a definition of an ache or a niggle...what I mean is the things that don't feel 100% but don't even make you for a minute think about not doing your normal run.

My own perennial feeling is a bit of a right hamstring thing. I believe, with my non

 welcome UG old mate!  I hoped a bit of cheeky banter about your session might draw you out....and it did!! You've just been reading all this time haven't you!

stay posting fella.

ps if i tried a week of your training i'd be retired within a week guaranteed. Clearly i was judging your training off what I could do...we all know you're an utter monster!

pps Luvsa...you dead mun?

agree with UG - you cant compare his training to most of ours and remark its too much.  Its like comparing a 400metre sprinters training to ours....in this example ours would be the extreme training.    Hourse for courses, UGs is right for him, ours is right for us.  

Andy, I did some 75 400s for a session the other day, but only 6, so a fairly light session. Probably similar to what you said really...could do them quicker, but would fatigue things more.

and 10secs off the 10k pb is good in my book, not scraping...

scraping a pb is when you get a second or 2, and have to rely on the chip time coming out favourably

Thought UG was supposed to be encouraging his new colleague Phil Wicks to come on here and make us look like the total amateurs we are, as opposed to disappearing himself...

UG, good to hear you've made improvements since coming off the thread.  Hope that isn't the reason for the improvements though!

definitely a poorer thread for not having early forefathers UG and ALD regularly posting.

Although it does mean we don't have bizarre runs of conversations where we reference UG,SG,SS,ALD,PC,and DT2.

You should take a look at the Sub 3 thread, it's all about the acronyms over there.  Capital letters everywhere.  It's like an episode of Sesame Street.

I used to have the odd look Dachs, but it's meant to be a marathon thread, so I like to stay away from those.

Also, there's only so much reading about people who have done 100miles on the bike, swum 10miles , and still smashed all of my pbs i can take

Hi UG you've been missed!

I can't make a comment on that session - it's just as beyond my ken as when guys in the office look at me like I'm mad when I tell them I ran 8 x 800 or a 16 miler

Obviously works for you though as part of your overall regime that's for sure!

How is Mr Wicks by the way?

Andy - I think it would be a reasonable guess that you've built up your endurance on that base mileage!

Ultra G, I didn't mean you or your training in any shape or form. I meant the situation where people training in groups treat the sessions as some kind of race. Every rep is an opportunity to show who can gut it out the best. Hence competitive training. Not what you and me do, which is 'secret training'. The guys I raced hated the way I'd train alone for 99.9999% of the time. I'd talk to them but wouldn't let on what I was up to. The attitude was that everyone should know their place in a group. I mean, how the hell can you surprise your rivals in a race when they see all your training and know your ability? Extreme training is just going out and smashing it, or stacking races back to back, or waiting until you're shattered with sore everything and then 'give it some more'. If 'this' is training then when does it 'pay off'? When does the sore legs and shattered frame transform into a better racing machine? I didn't have any numbers in mind.

As for my own 'Secret training' , the last 15 weeks mileage: 73,65,74,58,65,59,65,65,70,74,68,74,57,74,72.

And the pattern day to day, last 4 weeks: 10, 7session,10,15, 7session,10,10, 6session,10,8, Race,10,10,10,10,11,10,12,10,10,10,10,10,10inc session,12,10,10, 6session,10.

Nearly all running is off road, once a day. The aim was to make a particular load easy and repeatable day after day. I think I'm almost there.

RicF wrote (see)

 I mean, how the hell can you surprise your rivals in a race when they see all your training and know your ability?

So I guess you're telling me to stop the thread, becasue educated guesses to the exact second for all my times can be reached from my training that I outline

I might have to go secret squirrel from here on in....so you lot are going to have to step up the posting!

ps any lurkers want to take up the slack? Ideally a few people slower than me, and probably less Johnny come latelys who already exceed my best times from a couple of days of training

Just condensed an enormous post down to,

SG, no not us on this thread.

RicF wrote (see)

. I mean, how the hell can you surprise your rivals in a race when they see all your training and know your ability?

 

 

hmmm...how did that work out for Mo farah and Usian Bolt then.  Because Jupp and Blake trained with and knew their ability.