Moraghan Training - Stevie G

Very well run Dachs, and as others have said, an excellent first marathon to go on from (when the time comes!).  Like the TV - must have helped you kip post race!

Johnas - also excellent stuff, sub 2;50 and a negative split to boot - the stuff dreams are made of!

back to business today.

Light 10k pace reps, 3x1mile off 90s

Chose a bit of the Wycombe half route that inclines a bit for reps 1 and 3, and thus a slight descent for rep 2. Oddly came out

5.29,5.33*,5.29

Rep 2 actually came out 5.12 for 0.94miles as I thought i'd try and do splits like a pro for once rather than re-setting the watch...forgetting that it had taken a bit of distance from my walk recovery....and thus stopping dead on 2miles when the mile split would have been 2.06...rookie error.

never mind, barely any impact on the session. Just odd the slightly down came out slower than the slightly ups. Must have been giving it a little more to impress randoms at bus stops

Coaches eh?! That's why I don't have one - I can't stand being told what to do (even if it is for my own good!)

Speedy reps those SG. Reps for me to at lunchtime. For a bit of variety I did 2x1M, 2x 0.5M, 2x0.25M all off 90 sec. 5:46, 5:35, 2:53, 2:44, 1:23, 1:17. Times came out uneven due to a slight incline and stiff headwind on the out and opposite on the way back.

No lunchtime reps for me, just a steady 10 in 71 so better than a couple of weeks ago which was same route in 74 but still a way off where I was when I was doing it in 66 back round CP time last year.

Nice enough Bus, nice enough.

Do you ever consider  longer reps, just something like 2x2miles at Tempo (as in 5secs quicker than HMP) Might just give you a stronger workout.

Phil, you say that, but it surely depends on effort levels. If you ran at the same effort level for the 71 today than you did for the 66 then fair play you're a bit off. But if not, how can you compare?

Got a quick 4mile evening run done, now off to the "Big Clash" of Wycombe v Plymouth!

Saw some odd runners out tonight. Some woman sprinting up a very steep woody hill, a guy running pretty quick with a heavy looking rucksack, and more bizarrely a guy flooring it down Marlow Hill.

I wasn't exactly ambling down, but this guy sprinted down. I know his pbs, and they're a good few mins off me, so goodness knows what he was up to.

He'll keep to a proper race  

Stevie G . wrote (see)

Phil, you say that, but it surely depends on effort levels. If you ran at the same effort level for the 71 today than you did for the 66 then fair play you're a bit off. But if not, how can you compare?

Running isn't an exact science but I generaly find that easing back by 10% is a fair approximation to steady. Last year I was in 60 shape for 10, so 66 was +10%. This year the calcs say I would be 64:28 (based on 39:02 for 10k two days ago) so adding 10% to that gives 71 pretty much spot on.

As soon as I slow down more than 10% it goes from being steady to easy. Anything on the 0-10% range goes from steady to tempo to balls out racing.

It is getting a lot closer to being back, so today was 7:06 pace and I often knock off these runs at 6:5x pace so it is just a minute or two I need but with a gentle start and a cool down those minutes have to come off from about 8 and not the full 10 miles.

Just had a look at my calendar and I reckon Sun Nov 4th is the first day we will both be out on long early runs as I have family stuff next two Sundays, then you have Cabbage Patch and the following Sunday I have a Dashers event.

Still a couple of weeks away Philip, so a bit of concerted speed work....

Either way though, 10M in 71 mins is pretty good going. I'd be satisfied with that as a steady run.

I did the 3 x 2M session before the Wycombe Half SG, and found it a good session. I'll certainly be doing a couple more of those before Marlow - just takes a bit of extra time at lunchtime, so can be tricky to squeeze in! I'm also going to be re-introducing some proper tempos so that will help with the speed endurance.

Talking of halves, I've been offered a number for the Oxford Half a week on Sunday by someone who's dropped out. Not sure what to do, as I'm not quite in peak half shape at the moment, and its bang it the middle of my peak weeks for Marlow, which is something of an 'A' race for me. It could actually help though I suppose....

I wouldn't race it, but then I very rarely race on the road! For you it sounds pretty good timing, a  good 3 weeks before Marlow, so lets you see where you are on the flat.

Nice new (2nd year event) one to try too.

Up a bit earlier today, to fit a 4miler in at 7. Not a fan of working day morning runs, but the latest dentist appointment has ruled out the normal lunchtime....

Still...if i can do a 12-16 on a sunday at 7, a 4 shouldn't be too much drama!

Phil, have no idea how you did some 20s in the morning and then a day of work though!

Stevie G . wrote (see)

Phil, have no idea how you did some 20s in the morning and then a day of work though!

It isn't too hard for me as
1) I get up early every day and so I don't get up earlier to run. My hours are 9:30 to 5:30 but I am usually in before 7 so if I want to run I do so and start work late (actually on time).
2) I drive in and check email so I start running about 75 minutes after I get up and I have had a bit of breakfast so I am not running on empty. I am lucky in that I can eat fairly close to running as long as I avoid too much dairy.

I need to start doing a few early runs as recovery doubles so I run close to 10 miles most days which brings a 70 mile week into view.

Over time I found that a hot water to drink, and 3 weetabix with a small amount of skimmed milk 50mins before up to 16miles on a sunday is ideal.

Only time it has ever been a problem was eating too late the day before,

Race day is similar, but with 3 slices of toast as well, and strictly finishing 3hours before the race start. Generally get to the start line feeling hungry, but that is always the ideal feel personally, as you can race as hard as you can without a hint of a worry.

Delayed races can screw things a little...i remember a XC race one year was delayed by 20mins which wasn't ideal!

70 Phil? With a marathon in mind, or just higher mileage generally being the way to get faster?

I quite like early morning runs, especially in Spring and Autumn. You feel like you have the world to yourself. My normal run to the station thorugh the woods is 7.5M and starts at 6.55. This week I am intending to try a "Phil" and do my long run on Friday to work - we'll see how it goes and how much work I can do after!

Still thinking about Oxford. Can't work out how flat the course is as the map won't open. The description says "mostly flat", which could mean anything!

Right, off for breakfast now! 

I suppose morning runs that take a commute in can work quite well. I'd just worry about being obliterated before I'd started. At least at lunchtimes you get the morning fresh!

Oxford is meant to be flat from what I've read in past reviews. But then like you say flat can mean different things to different people.

majority of my running is done at 6am, so it doesnt get in the way of family life. (3 kids under 8yrs old translates to a lot of ballet, tap, tennis lessons, xc practice, craft clubs, gymnastics, swimming lessons etc)  Never eat anything beforehand even if its 15m off roader...just prefer to run on empty rather than any SG type issues.

any old SG issues thank you Deano...all resolved these days!

Cheers chaps, in hindsight I still feel pretty pleased.  Marathon running is a completely different ball game to the shorter long distance stuff, so if you click on the UK people around me on the Po10 results, you find a bunch of people who have slower times over 10K or HM than I do - but, having only had a year's worth of anything resembling serious training under my belt, there's no way I could have aerobically developed enough to run "equivalent" times.  So, onwards and upwards.

Dean - it was an 89 minute half.  In fact, I went through 10K in sunday in a faster time than my 10K PB was exactly a year ago, so, yeah, 2012 has been good to me.

Johnas - that's a great race from you, a quality negative split.  Hindsight is great in terms of the speed of the first half, but it's always a great feelingto finish strongly, particularly on that finish through the Brandenburg Gate.  Yes, the Reading vest would definitely have been me. Sounds like you came past at exactly the point that I was trying to rouse myself to some semblance of a fast finish (and failing).

SS - that's a hell of a weekend, very impressive racing.  You do a lot of your long training stuff off-road don't you?  You may have found your calling!  That weekend would have entirely mashed my legs.

Dean - good return to cross-country.  I'm sure XC is a bit of a learning curve still, and you'll move up the field as you re-learn the ropes.

PMJ - It sounds like promising improvement to me, good to see you coming back in the right direction.

Bus - a good performance again, good to get your fastest one of the year, especially after the amount you've done.

PC2 - quality run, great second place.  It bodes well to get back under 35 again.

DT2 - you just seem to keep improving, your consistent PBing over an extended period is fantastic. 1:12:xx is a very serious time indeed.  Really impressed with that.  All bodes well for Amsterdam.  You're shooting at 2:30?  Crikey - we'll certainly have an interesting race report, whichever way it goes.

Seb - sorry to hear the hip issues aren't improving, hope it clears up for CP.

Thanks Dachs. How are the legs feeling 3 days on?

Philip - are yous till doing your long run on Saturday and do you s till fancy some company? If so, how long, when and where? Friday early is now a no no, thanks to a critical meeting being thrust upon me first thing that wouldn't benefit from me feeling like death!

Dachs, I's so pleased for you and how you ran at Berlin. 2:50 is a terrific debut, and only 3 mins off target. It wasn't too long ago a 1:23 HM was a bit of a struggle? I'd jump at the chance of a 2:50 marathon! What's the plan now? Another mara in the works?! And yeah, I do lots of off road running as I love the Cheshire countryside and when I'm off work spend every easy run on the sandstone trail, so I kind of felt like it was 'my patch.'

Legs have been sore since Sunday (*shock*) but as each day had passed I wake up feeling a bit better. Today I felt back to normal; that's the beauty of having my schedule packed with easy mileage. Monday 9, Tuesday 8, Today 10.5. So I'm still on top of my base miles. Easy double tomorrow then a beautiful F-OFF! Love it.