Moraghan Training - Stevie G

RicF wrote (see)

On the subject of catching  a runner like I caught Bus yesterday. What's the opinion on what to do next? just keep going and possibly crush their spirits or just pull them along. Needless to say, if it wasn't Bus I caught yesterday I would have chosen the former option. 

Crush Him!!!  Pound him into the ground! go past him whistling a happy tune.  Of course had you burst past im sure he would have responded and you could have had a great sprint in

that said Its a nice thing you both did and i can understand it on a non pb course with awful weather conditions.   

At Lake Vrynwy HM i caught some chap on the line who was out of sight until the last few hundred yards and even did a semi-dip finish at the line to take him.

dean richardson 7 wrote (see)

Crush Him!!!  Pound him into the ground! go past him whistling a happy tune.  Of course had you burst past im sure he would have responded and you could have had a great sprint in

I'm just waiting for the SG tales from Bearbrook when I was leading him with just the last 400m uphill to go to the finish.

It's just a shame my inner iron has started to rust of late!

Wowzer - my calves are really sore today, in a way that only happens after Marlow or marathons!! Every time I sit at my desk for an hour my legs seize up - god knows what they'll be like by Wednesday!

The Youtube video of the race is great - there's even a shot of Annika in there!

Gotta go - I've run out of exclamation marks....

Bearwood College Reading XC, not Bearbrook! Different races.

I remember it well Phil, me a bit off top form after a niggle, you on decent form, being rude enough to sneak past mid way through the race, and me basically just running 2-3miles about 5metres behind.

We both knew how that one would end

Someone was playing an even ruder game and sitting just behind me and having us both!

It's funny, the year before at Reading, I felt strong, and really loved the race. Last year it felt a right old slog, and just plain hard work. Difference in fitness and confidence clearly.

Stevie G . wrote (see)

 love it Ric, i get the feeling you think you could have monstered Bus if you hadn't known him.  Trust me, Bus has an inner steel if he needs it and would have obliterated himself to prevent it.

And i'd know, as myself and Bus shared many, many a dual over the first 8years of our racing!

80% WAVA for Marlow? A race where you were probably a good 4-5mins down on a  flat course? What would you be generally then? In the mid to high 80s then?

Probably academic now over what I 'think' I might have done. From a neutral observers view of the result its clear that a guy from the Fell Runners Association nailed a guy from Harrow AC in a sprint finish.

WAVA, they're virtually giving 80% ratings away for guys my age. If they operated in exact ages then it would have been 80% plus since I'm 52 before this month is out.

When I fed the results in for your age, you'rd have to have run 75 minutes to match what I did. As I said, giving it away.

Split times from Marlow:

6:45, 6:28, 6:41, 6:35, 6:22, 5:58, (Halfway 43:00) 6:03, 6:31, 7:21(ouch!) 6:08, 6:51, 6:13, 5:52. Fin 84:32

So even with downhills, not exactly burning up the road. My overall impression of this course is that its too extreme to race until the last section. Just running at a steady effort will yield a similar result.

i think those splits tell the story pretty well, as you'd probably at least be looking for 6min miling in a normal half, yet only broke that twice!

7.21 for what must be the really steep Rotten row is a pretty good effort. When i raced this one in 02, and 05, I'm sure i had a little walk at least one of the years, and crawled up the other. I wasn't anywhere near your time tho, just sub 1hr 30 and 1hr 33.

Sure is a good margin for dropping off as you get older, but clearly you can't expect to run anywhere near the same at 50+ , then at 30+!

How were your WAVAs at your peak of times?No doubt you were still around the mid 80s? Come to think of it, i guess you can't work those out now, as the world records would have been different back then...so you can't just put in your times and your age at the time.

More like a slide finish on that mud! We'll just have to have a rematch next year

Your time up Rotten Row is excellent though Ric, especially after what had gone before and for this year in particualr the steady start probably paid off. Last year I did RR in 7:32, and this year 7:36. My best ever was 7:17 in 2009.

For comparison my splits were 6:27, 6:19, 6:31, 6:41, 6:27, 5:42, 6:02, 6:31, 7:36, 6:23, 6:52, 6:33, 5:52

Looks like the rot started to set in at Rotten Row (!) and I was moving backwards by mile 11 and 12 after Sam left me behind! Lucky you caught me up, or I might have slipped to 1:25 with no company!

i think we have the start of a major thread rivalry here

Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)

Video of the splash section on flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_pp/8154534272/

haha, that section is ridiculous!!

And who got their spotters badge, at around 27seconds, a particularly dodgy looking bloke going the wrong way.

SG, my WAVA efforts at my best were; by comparison with today 'total pony'. I never managed an 80% in my 30's when I set all my Pb's.

The first occasion I managed 80% was winning a 10,000m (on the track!) at 41. Didn't get another 80% for 4 years.

I've got over 20 age grades in the 80% but only four were achieved in my 40's.

Best three were 85, 86, 86% which were all 10 milers. PO10 has my best of all at the last Cabbage Patch. Which I felt was a poor run. On reflection it probably felt poor on account of me busting a gut, I've forgotten most of it.

Bus, glad you put your splits for Marlow up. I can see from the numbers how it all panned out.

It seems you set off hard and pushed the hills, but suffered for it. Not so much in the early stages but later. I can see where you clattered down the steep bits where of course I didn't, and finally where you turned yourself inside out racing SA up the RR bit. Looks like you didn't get over that bit. I meanwhile was just being my uncompetitive self so managed to take advantage.

During the race I never bothered to look behind me but I'm sure it was around 9 miles I thought I could hear feet catching me, then nothing more. If those feet belonged to the finishers behind us, then I guess I dropped them at some rate.

remind the class of your pbs again chief.

Maybe i got them wrong, because i thought you were a fair way ahead of what i've got on the table, and my best is a 77:71% WAVA for the 57.09. So I suppose i presumed you'd be comfy into the 80s.

but then maybe i'm overlooking that to go up a mere percent you need to take a  fair chunk off!

SG, Ok pb's. All years 97/98

Marathon, 2:46:25 (with bruised ribs)

Half Marathon, 73:43 (on video)

10 mile, 55:29 (inc full scale pit stop)

10k, 33:23 (uncert course)

6 mile, 33:13 (hill race with 240m ascents)

5000m, 16:27 (on video)

Ric, I just looked it up, and that half marathon would be an 80% + WAVA today for a 30 year old, let alone when you did it....

The world records would have been slower then, so you'd in theory  be closer to them thus, higher than 80% WAVA.

And that's from a 30year old, naturally if you set it later into your 30s that WAVA would inch up higher...

Stevie G . wrote (see)

Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)

Video of the splash section on flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_pp/8154534272/

haha, that section is ridiculous!!

And who got their spotters badge, at around 27seconds, a particularly dodgy looking bloke going the wrong way.

Is that you Philip? - are you on the way back from a fancy dress party dressed as Kill Bill?   

Stevie G . wrote (see)

Ric, I just looked it up, and that half marathon would be an 80% + WAVA today for a 30 year old, let alone when you did it....

The world records would have been slower then, so you'd in theory  be closer to them thus, higher than 80% WAVA.

And that's from a 30year old, naturally if you set it later into your 30s that WAVA would inch up higher...

 

Crikey you're right!

It must have been the years of never getting close that made me assume I hadn't done it. Mind you it was only recently I've taken much notice of these standards.

Still, it shows the difference gaining age makes. In that half marathon I averaged sub 35 10k the whole way. Now I only have to remain upright for a similar grading.

Something else about that half marathon of 73:43. In that race there was another runner who seemed to think that one way of beating people was simply to physically stop them, by blocking them.

As I started to go past, this chap would put in a couple of quick strides and then move right across in front. If I tried to go the other way, he'd just swing across to stop me.

I eventually dropped this fellow by taking a drinks station on the blind side. By the time he realised where I was, I was away. 

Believe or not I have a photo somewhere of this moment.

I subsequently chased a Kenyan all the way to the finish, whereas Mr Blocker ended up 4 minutes adrift.

He tried this at two other races including my 55 min Cabbage Patch run. Must have thought he was playing football.

 Glad I was able to sleep on and edit this post afterwards. But if read,.

Back to the Marlow tsunami. Never thought I'd be proud of running a 7:21 mile in any race but after your comments of appreciation of my efforts up Rotten Row SG & Bus, . Cheers.

Ric, every right to be proud old pal. It's no valid comparison, as I did Marlow when way less fit (sub 1hr 31 in 2005), but that clearly works out as 7min miling the whole way, so think of a number and double it for how slow Rotten Row would have been!!)

Dig out that pic of the blocker! I was doing the opposite at one stage of the GSR. A chap was trying ridiculously to draft me very close, so I was taking him very wide and throwing little bursts in , and eventually dropped the nuisance off. I'm not giving someone who isn't my pace a tow! I can't imagine someone thinking blocking would do the trick, you should have accidentally trod on his calf and said, well sorry mate, but you swerved right across me again.

Right, am foolishly going to a bottom of league 2 "classic" away game tonight, so evening running is out.

Therefore, I've the rare situation of an "in the week morning run"

Just a 4 luckily.

And as nasty as it looks out there, I expect I'll be thinking, at least this is a pootle, as the run at lunch looks probably the hardest tempo i've ever done....more on that later!

Grrr - I wrote a really long post last night just before I went to bed, but it hasn't appeared!

Early (and chilly!) start SG. Good luck with the lunch session! MIne will be an easy swim - calves are in no state to run.

The long and short of last night's post was, I wouldn't read too much into may pacing strategy Ric. There isn't one! I can never manage a negative split and always fade a fair bit over the end. When I reached half-way, 2 mins behind last year I knew it was all over for a good time.  Either way, in those conditions and on that course we should both be very pleased with a 1:24:31. Given that the guy in front was nearly a minute clear (and a very recent 2:47 marathoner), and the next runner was over a minute behind (and a 2:49 VLM this year) so we'd have only battled for one place anyway.  (Interestingly, I beat the 2:47 marathoner at Ridgeway a few weeks ago, but that's not on his Po10 - I guess he was cruising)

I also had a similar expereince to yours Ric at GSR last week, where a young lad kept cutting me up and using elbows on every corner until around mile 6 when I decided to pull away. Most gratifying to see him finish over a minute behind in the end...

Bus, never assume someone with fast times just simply didn't have a bad day. I don't like all this talk people "running it as a tempo" or a "jog". There's a chap we both know who's notorious for saying that after an under par one

My pal just texted saying he was ill and can't make the game tonight! Therefore, the morning run wasn't necessary. Grr!

Oh well, this time of year isn't exactly bad to do jack in evenings...and i'll probably needa good evening of relaxation tonight!

Just had a look at what i can get through work scheme on sports massages. Long story short looks like you can only get it covered if it's via an actual physio. Which is a shame, as a chap from my old club is a massage pro, and used to be Hayley Yelling's massage man.

So, there's a conundrum, go to a physio like Steve L and have it covered, or someone like the other chap but pay! other option is to up the stretching and rollering, but I get the feeling i'm not really getting to the base of things with that

SG, I'll have a look for the blocker later. A more civilised means of identification compared to yesterdays edited post.

8 miles around the woods this morning after a rest day yesterday. No real aches or pains to report, recovered well.

Ah - I thought there was something different this morning when I read the post again!

You've done remarkably well to have no pains after Marlow Ric - my calves are like rock, and I couldn't contemplate running 3 miles, let alone 8! I'm beginning to think the cumulative effect of the race last week might have had more effect than I thought and the bike ride Friday might have been an error too! That said, I always suffer for several days after Marlow!  It's probably your run of continuous hard running and high mileage that's helped you recover quickly.

You should pay for a massage SG - consider it an investment! Foam rollering is good, but only covers the big muscles. If it doesn't work, at least you know not to pay again...