Moraghan Training - Stevie G

13,521 to 13,540 of 37,417 messages
11/11/2012 at 12:33

hope that eases poste haste Bus. Better this week then the week before Marlow. Now that would be a world of pain...feeling under the weather and trying to race Marlow!

11/11/2012 at 15:55

8 miles of mud, rain, hills and forest today in 7:18. That makes 45 for the week, quite a small mileage week but 2 cracking sessions in there, and the long run today was shortened due to the taper for Leeds starting.

11/11/2012 at 16:43

XC training yes. But XC racing has become a bit off limits for me.

One problem I have is that I have very flexible ankles. When in mud, I seem to spend a little too much time and energy trying to stay upright while my feet go this way and that.

Other runners whose ankles appear to hinge just straight up and down, go flying through mud with hardly a stumble. The upshot is, if you pronate a lot then forget mud.

On top of that, in the last 10 years, just about every injury I've sustained has been through racing XC, the last two injuries were sustained not only in the same event but on the same part of the course within about 30 yards of each other.

It must be down to the disorganised violence of these events that causes such a strain to the system. I'll stick to the roads for now.

Now that Seb has mentioned a three lap course that cuts up badly. Much the preserve of the fast starter this type.

Why this is, is because every runner that  puts his foot on the ground makes the surface worse for the runner following. If you happen to be 100th after just one minute you're going to have to negotiate ground already mashed by 99 other pairs of feet, so harder to run on.

A lad in my club; an 800m runner, was talking about this type of course so I told him what to expect. In the race he went blasting off and finished way ahead of his normal spot, and as the clubs first scorer instead of the usual 6th or so.

11/11/2012 at 17:10

Crap race today: 57th in the X-C and I was 12th last year. The foot is causing training to be cut back so after a few weeks building up I did 42, 28, 10, 10 miles so those 10 miles are telling. Will leave the running or a few weeks and get on the bike to do the cardio.

Cortina5    pirate
11/11/2012 at 17:31

It was a packed field today at Datchet. 103rd - up 90 places from 2 years ago.

Ric - my LH ankle does move up and down fine. My RH, due to multiple twisting etc caused by XC doesn't hinge up/down very well compared to the LH. It does wobble side to side a lot - very noticeable on the bike.

11/11/2012 at 18:06
Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)

Crap race today: 57th in the X-C and I was 12th last year. The foot is causing training to be cut back so after a few weeks building up I did 42, 28, 10, 10 miles so those 10 miles are telling. Will leave the running or a few weeks and get on the bike to do the cardio.

Phil, you deserve an award for just attempting this race.

Foot problems must be the worse.

One of the first things I ever read about various injuries was the comment about feet. "Once your feet have problems, you've had it".

 And then they went on to talk about blisters as the problem. eh!

I think they must have missed something.

After one of my early injuries, I spent hours on a stationary bike. From the results I managed soon after getting running again, I wish I still had one.

 I used to do a lot of cycling but after a rather nasty episode that resulted in an afternoon in A & E, I never went out on a bike again.

Edited: 11/11/2012 at 18:17
11/11/2012 at 18:21

SG - to be honest i was itching to do a tempo this morning let alone a LSR. Although mcmillan will tell me that 6.58 is an LSR pace for me. My foot was blaring & i was just glad to get back on road.

There was one moment in the middle where i was frustrated and a raised a fast section at around 5min miling, No problem, yes! i could have kissed the road and spent the rest of the run glaring at any field.  Stupid XC races! Only cows should be in fields   

Cant believe i missed the other divisions Seb yep there was 700 runners after all.  a quick at those around you yesterday you are in some very nice company.  top effort mate.

11/11/2012 at 18:44

Dean, you sound spot on with your training pace, I was just thinking about the idea of sub 7 being "slow"

Good to smash a little section and feel good though isn't it. From what I've experienced and heard, that metatarsalgia can be an arse, but doesn't see too worrying compared to other foot related stuff. I think at least half the thread have had a piece of it this last 6months.

Phil,  I'm really shocked you went and raced today buddy! Last I heard you had at best deep bruising, and needed an insert, and looking at that last month of training, I would have thought the last thing you'd want to do is try and run flat out.

I suppose at least with xcs there isn't the pure and obvious comparison to past times than on the road.

From what I heard today was a record field of 400! (Iron, good work on the improvement, good to feel isn't it)

I think they've made a bit of a problem for themselves keep adding new clubs. One last year, one this year, I think some of the other courses that already tell you not to bring too many cars might be a bit swamped!

Ric, encouraging there! Not.

I know what you mean though. The 2 days of PF i had ages back were worrying. When it hurts to put your foot on the floor it's quite tough to see it going. That has to be the worst running injury.

As for me, I have a nag that these twinges in the top right leg/hip flexor need sorting, but for now I can run through even 5.20 pacing and not feel any worse after or the next day.

Am fastidiously doing strengthening/stretching 2/3 times a day in the meantime. Am entering a really key period this next month, with 2 road pb attempts, and xc fare too.

Will definitely get a sports massage sorted, see if this is mere build up of tightness over time.

Stevie, nice run there as well, xc makes it a lil bit more interesting.

Edited: 11/11/2012 at 18:47
11/11/2012 at 21:41

SG, as far as I know PF is the worse running injury.

As for hip flexor problems. I had some myself once and only resolved the problem when I traced the source to where the things are attached, at the lower back region.

12/11/2012 at 08:37

back seems to be the cause of a lot of things. i do a couple of exercises for the back, such as holding the knees to the chest lying on the floor, and then a single leg version of it.

Also when sat at the desk kind of flexing the back, which can look a little odd as it looks like you're dry humping the desk.


12/11/2012 at 13:06

It must be winter if everyone's running cross-country.  Sounds like great stuff from Seb, Dean and Iron.  Not so good for PMJ, sounds like some time away from it is a good idea.  Feel bad about moaning about a couple of weeks when you've been affected by this for months on and off.

Still not massively tempted by cross-country, but in the spirit of being part of a club, I shall turn up and give it a crack once or twice.  For my club, some of the fastest guys hardly ever run it.

14 for me yesterday, so longest run since the marathon.

12/11/2012 at 14:20

Number for Epsom 10 arrived today.

Low key sort of race with an average of less than 300 finishers most years.

Heavily represented by old bods like me. Last year more than two thirds of the field were vets.

10 miles off road in just under sub 8 min ml average. I can sense that I haven't totally recovered from last weeks race. That Marlow course certainly has a sting in it.


12/11/2012 at 14:43

Nice XC racing on the weekend Seb, Dean and Iron.

PMJ - really hope you can shake that foot problem off. Must be hugely frustrating. I've had a total of 75 days off injured this year so I know how it feels.

Surrey League XC for me on the weekend. I'm getting closer to where I was pre injury, but it's still slow progress and I'm only gradually increasing the mileage as the knee still moans a little every now and then. 27th place in the Div 2 race so inside my pre race target of a top 30 finish. UG had a storming run and finished 4th, a good 90 seconds ahead of me. It was a good day as my club won on the day and we hold a handy lead in Div 2 at the halfway stage of the league. Finished the week off with 20 miles on some gentle hills yesterday morning. It was an absolutely beautiful morning for a run if you were in Surrey. The first hour or so was in darkness but once it was light there was not a cloud in the sky and it was dead calm.

I'd like to canvas for opinions on long run effort level. I normally aim to average about 150-154 HR for my long runs, which is about 75% of max HR. Every now and then I'll have one where I put in a few swift miles towards the end which will push this number up, but I generally try to stick to that range. What do others who monitor their HR on long runs generally sitck to in terms of % of max HR?

12/11/2012 at 15:21

Used to use a HR monitor a lot more than 20 years ago. I no longer bother since all its doing is showing your HR.

What it doesn't do is show is how that HR is linked to the condition of the muscles in your legs.

It also doesn't show an elevated blood lactate level.

You need super fresh muscles to hit max figures. If your leg muscles are stuffed try hitting max HR on them. Despite what some say, my research shows that as your legs gets tired and lose their bounce your heart rate tracks downwards.

You start  a race at 185bpm and by the time you've blown up, its down to 169bpm.

My long run pace is on the edge of threshold so probably 85-90% of full effort.

Played around for a couple of races last year with HR. Discovered that 173bpm was the level I started getting wiped out at. By keeping around this figure I avoided blowing up. I also left about 30-40 seconds on the course.

Sometimes you just have to ignore the numbers and just run.

Edited: 12/11/2012 at 15:22
12/11/2012 at 17:42

I would never race using a HRM but when doing a long run I keep to 150 - 155BPM. This always kept me at the slowest end of my easy pace range and sometimes you just want to hit 7min/miles as you are a bit fresher. But like others say sometimes I'd be running at 150BPM but feel awful as my legs are trashed. I don't use it anymore 'feel' is a far better method IMO. I only use my HRM to check resting heart rate.

12/11/2012 at 19:48

Quick 5 in 7:35 average. Felt rotten, legs were heavy, breathing was laboured. Parents' evening tomorrow so might be back home too late to run anyway so an impromptu day off looks on the cards.

12/11/2012 at 20:54

ss - go easy this week.. save it for the race

Warren - good work on the XC...regards HR i cant help you im afraid despite having the kit i have never used it.

Iron - thats some improvement over 2yr on your finishing positions. Excellent progression

Edited: 12/11/2012 at 20:56
Cortina5    pirate
12/11/2012 at 21:51

I did all my IM training via HR. Everything was Z2 (75-85% can't recall), and then after the first 10 weeks there were a few Z4 pickups on shorted runs and bikes.Slightly different I know, however in this case it was train as you'd race - pretty much the entire race was done in Z2.

The problem with HR is that it is an output rather than an input. The output can be affected by all sorts (time of day, tiredness, caffiene, etc).

Cheers Dean. 90 places and ~6 minutes. Good racing Warren.

I had a bad lower back last year, and the physio had me doing some yoga stuff like cobra/cat/horse/etc. Seemed to ease things up.

Hope the rest works Phil.

13/11/2012 at 06:01

Noticed that Runners World has five (or four) copies of Sports Injuries a Self Help Guide by Vivian Grisogono to give away.

Handy book, I've had a copy since 1988 which explained many of my maladies.

A couple of things that got my attention in the text is

1: The level of pain and damage that some sports people are prepared to keep going through.

2. The rehabilitation exercises that reach and surpass (very quickly) the level that got me injured in the first place.


13/11/2012 at 13:16

HR monitor - I do have one, but since I've never managed to work out my maximum HR, the figures on it are pretty meaningless.  I will give it a proper go soon though.

5 mile tempo run last night (plus 2m easy before and after to make 9).  Averaged 5:59 pace - 6:01, 5:57, 5:55, 5:59, 6:05.  Struggled a little at the end there.  Looking back at the training log, I notice that this is a very similar pace to my tempo efforts just before running 1:18:03 at the Reading Half.  On that basis, a 1:17 -1:18 looks possible at Gosport, in which case I think I shall aim for a slight PB, i.e. low 1:17.  What Dean said is right - the speed is still there, which is apparent from recent rep sessions, but I will need a bit more time before I can string it all together into a decent pace for a whole race. 

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