Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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16/01/2013 at 15:27

Yep, I remember that one. Almost passed out in my Mum's roast dinner afterwards! The problems wasn't so much that it was hugely hot, just that it was very warm suddenly after a long cold period. 'twas my slowest ever Wokingham....

Right, went out for a long road run today. Turned back after 1/3M as, although mainly clear, there were lots of problem patches of ice which forced me on to the road and I didn't fancy faffing with that for 15M with much of it next to busy roads. Went home, changed shoes and then did just under 14M of hilly XC instead in 2 hours (no drink!). Nice run, except for a long stretch through Bradenham Woods which was a cold, muddy quagmire with a thin crust on top that I kept finding the deepest bits of!

There's been so many winter races affected or cancelled by bad weather the past few years. A bit of cancellation insurance from the operators wouldn't go a miss.


16/01/2013 at 15:56

a run of that length midweek is a cracking run in anyone's money! nice work.

glad to just be a 3 tonight. embracing the easy day after yesterday!

16/01/2013 at 16:20

Must admit, I'm feeling it a bit trying to focus on work this afternoon! Take it easy on those pavements tonight......

16/01/2013 at 17:04

nice midday/midweek run Bus. 14 miles XC not to be sniffed at. Has it being snowing up Buckinghamshire way? Not a flake here in Kent thankfully although it's bitterly cold.

I lspent my lunchtime in the local bike shop. I currently walk 5 mins to work but am moving 3 miles out of town so a commuter bike was called for. Will pay for itself in a few months versus public transport and even quicker versus a car. Will be some nice to add some daily xtraining intot he running mix.

16/01/2013 at 17:48

Good run that one Bus.

When outdoor conditions get really treacherous due to ice, I tend to give some thought to whether or not anything is to be gained by training in it.

I've been caught out by this 'must train regardless, I have a race coming up' mentality. But with snow and ice, if in doubt, I think about doing what I call  'a Richard Brown!'

A 'Richard Brown'?

Richard Brown was an ok runner but wasn't the fastest by some way in our club. One February the snow and ice arrived and us dedicated and ambitious runners trained through it regardless and as a result did ourselves far more harm than good.

At the end of the week the snow all went away and we all limped off to run a TVXC.

Richard Brown promptly annihilated the rest of us. His explanation.

"I saw all that snow and ice and said to myself I'm not running in that shit. So took the week off". 

No aches or pains, fresh as you like.

As things stand, I'm limiting out door training to every other day. 

16/01/2013 at 18:02

Ric, true.

I tend work to a bit of a plan like below

  • any level of rain or coldness     train no question
  • lots of snow                               reduce volume and mileage, but generally still do doubles. long run do on time rather than mileage
  • ice/snow                                   as above but limit to parks with XC shoes.

speedwork is pretty much out if there's any real snow about.

Johnas, in terms of the Wycombe end of Bucks, Monday was pretty snowy, but didn't settle too much, and by Tuesday was 100% perfect roads.

Is still bitterly cold, but hopefully that's us done....

it better be, there's races afoot! It's all well and good smashing a xc here and there, but without road times to quantify it it's a wasted opportunity!


16/01/2013 at 18:27

Plenty of snow forecast over the weekend unfortunately at the moment, though may turn to rain. The past few years when we've had snow the running/train combo has often been the only way to get to work, so it tends to be xc doubles every other day with working at home in between with a lunchtime xc in the snow for good measure! I like running in the snow, but the novelty does wear off, especially when it is wet and slushy. Mind you, all the extra work can make it all seem very easy when normal running resumes!

I think doing a "Richard Brown" says more about the fact that we don't tend to take proper breaks unless they are forced on us than it does about the weather! 


16/01/2013 at 18:33

Just notice, my earlier reply to Johnas post hasn't appeared! Anyway waht I said was:

Thanks - though no long run at the weekend, which is nice!

I find riding a bike a few miles a good way to ease tired muscles, and its sometimes amazing how you can still ride a bike after something like a marathon, becuase of the subtle differnce in muscles used.


I also said similar to SG about the snow, though I wouldn't say 100% clear up here in Hazlemere, certainly not for the pavements where there has been a bit of thawing then re-freezing. My own road is always in the shade, and is also in a bit of a frost hollow where cold air sinks, so it can still be icy long after everywhere else has defrosted. I've measured the temperature in my back garden as low as an almost unbelievable -18C back in the big freeze of 2009/10! We had over a foot of snow in the garden for over three weeks!


16/01/2013 at 18:52

It probably says it all, that my first thought when Ric mentioned a "Richard Brown", was some kind of pit stop

16/01/2013 at 19:23

14 miles XC midweek Bus! Nice work, good to get it in now incase the weather permits LSRs at the weekend. I tidy little 10 miles for me tonight. God only knows what will happen to the intended training session tomorrow, don't fancy another session on the grass!

16/01/2013 at 21:10
Much as doing a Richard Brown is eminently sensible, I spend nearly 15 years finding excuses not to run - it was too cold, too hot, too wet, too windy, I was too hungover - so I didn't. It makes me very reluctant to not run because of the conditions, cos I don't want to go back to that.

Our track escaped ice tonight, so did 20 x 400 with the club. Recoveries started at 75 seconds, then reduced every 5 reps, ending up at 35 seconds. Times were 73, 75, 74, 75, 74, 72, 73, 74, 72, 73, 74, 75, 74, 74, 74, 74, 75, 75, 76, 76. Average of 74 seconds, so pleased with the pace despite the inevitable fall off at the end. So, a Kenyan marathon pace session...
16/01/2013 at 21:12
Great run Bus. Same goes for you Stevie. I 'managed' 7.5 today at just over 7 min mile. It felt like I was trying to run 5 min miles. no snow on the roads in sunny lancashire.
16/01/2013 at 21:14
Good run by Bus, a midweek 14 has to stand you in good stead for wokingham. Sounds an enjoyable one too.

Sounds like SS may have finally shaken that illness, which is good to hear.
16/01/2013 at 21:59

fookin hell Dachs! I need a lie down after reading that monster session. awesome job!

16/01/2013 at 22:02

Cheers guys. It was a nice run, but don't forget it was just the re-scheduled weekend LSR so don't read too much itno it being midweek! Likewise though, good to get a 10 under the belt Stevie.

Dachs, that is a seriously impressive session! I've only ever managed 10 reps even at that distance (well NAD at 1/4M), a good 5 secs per rep slower and with more recovery! As for consistency, a 3 sec drop-off over that many reps with a decreasing recovery is nothiing. (take your point re the Kenyan marathon pace though!!). Certainly can't say you ducked out with excuses for that one!   I guess doing it as a club session helps with the motivation to keep going, but even so, that is some effort! Another one that makes me think I might work a bit harder if there was some peer pressure at my quality sessions though...

16/01/2013 at 22:15

Dachs, that's a beast session. I did one of those last summer, but my reps were 84s all the way off 45 recovery. What pace does 75 equate to for you? I was always told this was a 10k session but running 400 @10k pace always seems a doddle.

Illness have been shaken, still a bit of coughing, especially late at night after a run but no other nastiness going on.

Having seen what each group is doing tomorrow, looks like a road/hill session with a nice long WU (3 miles) to the meeting point then the session is a mile from home... perfect for a WD. Hills are my friends... hills are my friends...

16/01/2013 at 22:19

Yeah, but with with friends like that....

(glad the lergy is virtually gone SS!)

17/01/2013 at 08:05

Wow, Dachs, frustration coming out in that session

Amazing session! You're looking bang on to justify you being my forum tip of 2013!

IN Phil's absence, let's analyse it  (hope you're ok by the way Phil!)

16-20 x 400 is generally a 10k paced session.

When I did 16x400 ages back, it was at 10k current pace, so mine came out 1:24 I think, off 60secs. I then pretty much came out that pace in my next 10k.

If Dachs, can hold 5miles worth of 5min miling pace, with shortening recoveries, then the next 10k race seems pretty darm promising.

I know some of you chaps tend to smash your 400s rather than do them to zones like me, but in my experience, I find the recoveries are countered out by the race adrenaline, and I generally get the time in the race of the reps...

I guess it's not that simple when you're gunning each rep...otherwise you'd be looking at 31min 10king!

(i know we've debated this before!)


Edited: 17/01/2013 at 08:09
17/01/2013 at 09:25

Stevie S - at a guess, I'd be looking at that as being target 3K pace, but I've never run a 3K, so couldn't be entirely sure.

SG - had it been a 10K pace session, I would definitely have reigned it in a bit.  There are most certainly no 31 minute 10Ks on the horizon!  I just ran to the pace that I thought I could complete the session.

I think there are a few things at play - firstly, I seem to be fortunate enough to be able to recover quite quickly off reps, so my rep times don't necessarily translate to sustained efforts in races as well as others.  Secondly, I enjoy the track sessions - it's often the only time in the week that I'm not running on my own (although there was no-one pulling me along last night) - so that is maybe reflected in how I approach them.

SG, I also think that you may underestimate how many 400s you could probably smash out at a similar pace if you were minded to - after all, as you say, you haven't trained like that for some time.  But each to their own, and the only thing that counts is race results.

Edited: 17/01/2013 at 09:27
17/01/2013 at 10:20

Pretty valid points I think Dachs. I've certainly been conditioned to train in a certain way this last couple of years. I guess the old me was more a "smasher" though I wasn't serious enough to time anything back then.

One session with Frankie's club (Frankie where are you by the way old son!), is a great example.

Teams of 3, 150metre ish rep, you smash one at max pace, rest while your 2 pals in your team do theirs, and then off again. 10 in a set, 2min recovery, 10more.

Legs were utterly dead for days after makes my legs hurt thinking about that these days.

The real benefit of your pace is that even if you went and did a really short race you'd probably find the pace a stroll

Half marathon you'll barely feel like you're moving...

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