Moraghan Training - Stevie G

I also hate that Luzcozade advert, loads of marketing rubbish. They make it look like they've smashed a mara out on a treadmill. Gang of hero wannabes.

Unlike me the real deal hitting out a steady 9 @ 7:43 average!

I heard about the Southern XC, course is rutted and snowy. It's a sad state when XC races are being cancelled for weather conditions. The whole ethos of XC is battling the course/conditions. I bet you'd be hard pressed to find a runner who agree with it being cancelled.

Sessions are looking a write off this week, the track is an ice rink, the roads are covered in sleet. We have a road hill session tomorrow, it's not what I'm after but will have to do. Weather will be back to normal next week so I can hit some rep sessions and see where I am.

I must be quite a soft core runner, as I can see why XC races are cancelled! Seb's the only one Ive seen throughout this forum and facebook who agrees with me, with seemingly every other runner giving it the full "but it's XC, and we're super hardy runners" line

A lot of our XC races, as we've touched upon are on mutli terrain. It wouldn't take much for path or rock hard trail to be lethal in ice!!

Yep, in full agreement with you SG myself on the XC conditions. I would have posted last night but was having issues with losing almost the entire contents of an 8GB memory card. Ok now.

XC is fine while the ground is total mud. And if the ground is predictable, then a covering of snow adds to the fun. But frozen ruts are 'no go' and frozen ruts half covered in snow are worse.

Yesterday I was caught out by hard lumps hidden underneath the lastest snow. I didn't twist anything but the surprise got me swearing as I considered the implications had I done so.

I have tempered my view on the BFR XC cancellation. Had a great run on Sunday in the snow, but kicking a buried log made me wince a bit. Had there been some feeling in my feet I'm sure it would have been worse. Luckily it was pre-iced at point of use

Ric - I'm sure our protagonist will agree there is little difference between dodgy ground hidden by snow and big pot holes and bad ground hidden by mini-lakes a la Sandhurst XC!

My wife moved a house viewing for me to run BFR XC. Even though it was cancelled I won't get that again for years.

One for you Imeldas out there; I've signed up for a couple of sprint duathlons to get the speed back in. Are lightweight racing shoes worth it, especially for MT courses (Feb/Mar/Apr), or are these the domain of tarmac & summer racing? For 5km etc is the fact I wear huge stability shoes a worry when moving to racing shoes? I haven't had much of a problem with the spikes, but then XC running is slightly more stochastic than a flat tarmac course.

Having heard the feedback from my coach, large parts of the Parliament Hill course were underwater last week and have left it extremely rutted and frozen. As Ric says, a bit of mud or snow is fine but rutted ground is just plain dangerous. I'm happy to give it a wide berth!

Seb, yes, I've read Running with the Kenyans.  I kind of enjoyed it, though I don't think I finished it with any massive insights.  It struck me that the improvements he made (something like 38 down to 35 minutes for 10K) could probably have been made by just undergoing a normal training regime with decent mileage at home, but I suppose it wouldn't have made much of a book.  The biggest eye-opener was that he'd managed to win a 10K in 38 minutes in the first place.

Still running to and from work in the ice.  Three cheers for trail shoes.  Think I've scoped out a beautifully clear long stretch of pavement for a session tonight, but we'll see...

My one and only win was a 10k in 38:52, at Dorney lake on a VERY windy day Dachs!

I agree re the frozen rutted ground - had a couple of incidents with that sort of thing myself of late! Took a nice tumble this morning on a very icy lane - 3 slips in a row with one going straight onto my hip - I was like a baby giraffe! wish those bloody Orocs would arrive!

IC - how much do you need stability in a shoe? Lightweight racers do make a difference, but you would need to build up to thme. The Asics DS racer does offer some stability support, so is a good compromise. As for MT course, it depends on how much grip is needed. You can get very light trail shoes (eg NB MT101) but most racers don't have a lot of grip  (though hagios are ok.)

the paths near me are still very icy so im going to attempt a tempo on the treadmill today as im bored of running slow in the snow.

tempo on the treadmill done.  2miles w/up/down with 4 miles @ 5.45 pace with the last 800m in 2.24 (or 4.50 mile pace) 

set the treadmill to 1% incline to make it harder and a bit more like outdoors.

obviously it not the same as tempos outside but it felt good to get some leg turnover in instead of trotting out LSRs in the snow

Under the current conditions I can detect a level of frustration kicking in.

Accept that it is nigh on impossible (for anyone) to achieve anything of value at the moment.

Not worth the risk. The winners out of this frozen mess will be anyone who hasn't buggered themselves up.

Which Duathlons you entered in ICITH? Take it your not biking much right now?

In respect to the Orocs Bus,  I looked at buying some but the studs just dont seem like they protrude out of the rubber lugs enough to give decent ice grip, so I've gone for some Yaktrak Pros instead, a clip on set of metal coils that give good ice/snow grip apparently. They should turn up soon and I'll give some feedback.

Good job on the tempo Dean, Think 1% incline is standard to make a treadmill as similar to a road setting as possible.

Indeed Ric it is starting to become a balancing act between safe and unsafe training, the usual off road run is starting to become very Icy, 1 slip and you can twist or break something, my ankles are holding up ok but I've sprained a wrist catching myself after running across a ploughed field covered in snow, one step the snow is 3" deep the next step your down a rut 10" deep and over you go. 8.5miles today XC/Trail @7:12pace, dont know how Im getting faster each day in worsening conditions, bit random. No quality in the forseeable future. too sketchy.

Moved on to the book 'Born to Run' now, enjoying running literature right now.

Got a really tough knot in my left calf which could have contributed to the achilles problems. had it for a month or two and really struggling to work it out with the foam roller, it really hurts rolling over it and almost clicks as I go over it, ouch!

good mental workout on that thing too Deano!

Dachs, my pal won a 10k in 39.43 once. It was the same day myself and Bus did some ridiculously gruelling hilly 2 lap 10k locally! Back in 2009.

Really busy work day for me today so was pleased to still get my session in. Carved a mile off the warm up for time sake, and was 16mins at 10k effort, and what I thought was 3x2mins 3k effort, off 2.30 recoveries.

On snow and ice round a field, paces actually were more MP and HMP respectively, but was working hard!

Checking the schedule it should have been 4x2min, my mistake...but in fairness I'm sure 2mins less of smashing round a park isn't a big deal.

The 4mile evening run felt like a stroll in comparison!

Bus...might be a change of plan for tomorrow..i#'ll mail you.

To be fair rutted ground is very dangerous, my ankles are taking a bit of flack with all the snow and ice.

Good workouts today fellas, Dean on a treadmill! Madness!

I did a hill session 8 reps, 3mins recovery, then 8 reps of another hill. Both long reps, worked hard and lead the group for every rep, the last set I was way out in front. 10 miles total for the session with W/U and W/D.

Having looked over my training, I've realised I've never done a true tempo run in training. So this Saturday I'm off to the track (weather permitting) to hit 4 miles at 5:55-59 pace, see how it feels. A lot of literature say this is the key to improvement. Then how have I got here without doing one!?

RicF wrote (see)

Under the current conditions I can detect a level of frustration kicking in.

Accept that it is nigh on impossible (for anyone) to achieve anything of value at the moment.

Not worth the risk. The winners out of this frozen mess will be anyone who hasn't buggered themselves up.

Yep, I've had enough.

I put last Sunday's 9.5 mi down as a quality session as it was my LSR, especialy as it was an easy pace. Tonight's tempo was snowed off, almost became an XC then turned in to the normal club route. Too dodgy underfoot to push the pace. "All Weather" Track session tomorrow cancelled.

The Bus wrote (see)

IC - how much do you need stability in a shoe? Lightweight racers do make a difference, but you would need to build up to thme. The Asics DS racer does offer some stability support, so is a good compromise. As for MT course, it depends on how much grip is needed. You can get very light trail shoes (eg NB MT101) but most racers don't have a lot of grip  (though hagios are ok.)

A very good question Bus. I started with some random Asics I bought for £11 in Sports Direct years ago. When I started again I had gait analysis and ended up with Mizuno wave inspire 6s, which were ok, but I felt like I was falling off the inside. I was re-analysed and ended up with some Asics GT-2160s which were much better. These have been replaced with GT-2170s. All of my shoes are rather clunky, as are my Asics Trabuco XC.

I'm hoping the MT component of the race isn't too bad and firm underfoot. I'll look at the DS Racer. I'm also looking at the Asics Noosa. Horrible looking, but they're tri shoes so have a smooth liner for sockless running.

Seb - I'm planning on racing atleast once a month a Dorney lake. A local series just to get used to the hurt. Then the Marlow du; it's a good atmosphere. I've also lined up today a European qualifier at Althorp mid Feb.

Doing a lot of work on the turbo at Threshold. Last week I did 3 hard days in a row. A tad painful.

Stevie, beware that in a 4 mile block, if it's your true tempo pace, and you're not on the verge of a breakthrough, 2miles at that pace is tough. Maybe 2miles, 2mins then 2miles might be an intro

Stevie G . wrote (see)

Stevie, beware that in a 4 mile block, if it's your true tempo pace, and you're not on the verge of a breakthrough, 2miles at that pace is tough. Maybe 2miles, 2mins then 2miles might be an intro

Thanks for the heads up - I've done plenty of research and going off the general advice of "it's circa 10 mile pace" and using Daniels' VDOT formulae, it comes out as 5:58. Might be worth playing by ear and seeing how I feel at 2 miles.