Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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25/01/2013 at 13:53

cross-post... Monster effort, SG.  Just demonstrates what I said.  Especially promising that it felt so comfortable.  The distance on sessions like that should really count when it comes to Wokingham.

25/01/2013 at 14:19

cripes Dachs, you say mine was a monster effort, what about yours!?? 35.36 for 10k off a 1mile warm up, in training, and a big finish to boot?

I doubt I'd be able to get within a couple of mins off my 10k pb outside a race, so you're either well under 34min shape, or you have an epic ability to pretty much almost race, outside of a race

I really don't know with you which of those 2 options it is, probably both.

I wonder if I'll be anywhere near you at Wokingham to be able to "use" you at some point

I think the shorter 3mins HMP, 3mins steady suited me, as it's so little a time to work at that pace, and then steady almost feels like walking in comparison!

I guess I'll just have to look at Wokingham as something like 12.5 x(3mins HMP, 3mins HMP, no recovery), then a sprint in

Edited: 25/01/2013 at 14:23
25/01/2013 at 14:35
Stevie G . wrote (see)

I doubt...

Therein lies the problem! Sorry to be harsh Stevie, but if you doubt you can do something you wont. Nevertheless a very nice lookinng session you did there.

Dachs, cracking fella. 10k is a good distance at cHMP in training. That sub 1:15 is not too far away at all.


25/01/2013 at 14:46

Ah but RJ, talk is cheap. I like to glad hand after the event, not before it

25/01/2013 at 14:48
Race Jase wrote (see)

Dachs, cracking fella. 10k is a good distance at cHMP in training. That sub 1:15 is not too far away at all.

Presuming that's circa HMP rather than saying Dachs morphed into a Chimp mid run?

Dachs, were you actually aiming at HMP? Or were you just smashing it

25/01/2013 at 14:58
Stevie G . wrote (see)

cripes Dachs, you say mine was a monster effort, what about yours!?? 35.36 for 10k off a 1mile warm up, in training, and a big finish to boot?

I doubt I'd be able to get within a couple of mins off my 10k pb outside a race, so you're either well under 34min shape, or you have an epic ability to pretty much almost race, outside of a race

I really don't know with you which of those 2 options it is, probably both.

A bit of both.  I'd like to think I'm in sub-34 shape, and, if you take that 36:01 tempo from last summer which was followed by a 34:19 race, that would seem to be about right (of course direct comparisons like that very dodgy, but let's not worry about that).  However, I've always been able to motivate myself to go quick in training, so that's part of it too.  I wasn't intending to 'race' today, hence the start was a bit steadier, but as I relaxed into it I guess I got faster without realising it.

In terms of Woingham, I think you're in shape to smash a decent chunk out of your PB.  Are you genuinely going to set off at just sub-PB pace?  Apart from conquering your own inevitable fast start, you may end up underselling yourself if you stick with that kind of pace for too long.  Is it a case of reassessing by halfway if you feel comfortable?  Then you can overtake me in another blistering finish...

25/01/2013 at 15:52

Dachs, The only guarantee i'll make, is that i'll run as hard as I can on the day


25/01/2013 at 15:58

Coy.  I like it.

25/01/2013 at 15:59

top session SG tidy pace over a decent distance, as long as your depreciation of hitting a 75 is for the thread appearances only, & you turn up on race day believing its defn on then thats ok.  Im with Race jace on the belief front. i even visualise the race to completion beforehand.  Belief wont make a bad runner good, but it can prevent a good runner running bad.  (more than a hint of yoda there)

dachs - thats obscene!  i have never gone that fast in training, not through choice though! i just struggle to motor tempos of 4 miles at sub 6 pace. you just blitzed 6+ at that.  Far be it for me to play mother hen but dont leave your best running in training. No point being a monster in training and finding you "only" get a 34.x in the race.  that said if i posted that session i would feel ultra confident of sub75 and low 33s, so those PBs of your look short lived 

25/01/2013 at 16:53

Leaving my best running in training is the last thing I've ever done. Reading articles by Charlie Spedding gives a valid reason.

His belief; and I think its true, is that when you have an important race coming up, or any race coming up in my case, is that subconsciously you are holding back from giving the training an all out blast.

Those that can set records in training but not in races are invariably more interested in beating some clubmate in a session than testing themselves. A kind of bullshit and bluster, bragging rights stunt.

Just think of those runs the day before a race where you felt like total crap. That's good if there appears to be no reason for it.

One day in 1982, Dave Moorcroft went for a morning run and was so tired and flat that he had to stop and walk. This was not good, he had a 5000m race that evening. Gave up, went home, had a kip, got up, dragged himself to the stadium and smashed six seconds off the world record.

So on that basis, I keep the race in mind and apart from intervals and strides find I can race over a minute a mile faster than I ever go in training. Only gone sub 7 once in the last year in a steady run.

Sounds unfeasible until you realise you can go from walking to jogging without training. And running slowly to running faster without training. So running steady to blasting the pace isn't so different.

Another glass of red I think!

I should add that some authorities think that the only way to prepare for a race is to replicate that race in training. Not so.


Edited: 25/01/2013 at 17:15
25/01/2013 at 17:14

It doesn't sound too unfeasible with you Ric old boy, as you don't do any tempos or speedwork these days

If you applied your "1 min faster" on the day than in training to some of these fast monsters we have on this thread, they would be breaking the world mile record

25/01/2013 at 17:25

Dachs, yoo've just broken my 10k PB in a training run. Don't speak to me for a while

SG - moster session, strange how steady feels easy sandwiched between HMP. Cracking tempo run. They really are session that move you on big time.

RJ - you mentioned that intervals/speed work sometimes led to injuries when HM training. What are your 'sessions' when in marathon training?

Bus, you dererve a Peroni or 4 tonight after that run, didn't sound great fun!

Day off for me. Bliss.


25/01/2013 at 17:27

SG, I do speedwork but its all half cut and generally unstructured. I've worked out that my strength in a race is just that. Strength.

If I have an element of speed. Whatever that speed is on the day then its likely I'm going to hold it all the way home.

At the moment I haven't much too report beyond saying that the only run I do is 10 miles XC every other day. Within that run I might just occasionally crank the speed right up.

My observation of training is that to improve on performance one only has to increase the workload. I'm not sure if it really matters much what the increase in workload is made up of, as long as it adds up to more.

My own training has gone from one run per day to twice a day training incorporating an awful lot of bike work, and some weight training.

Its not running, but 100 to 120 mins per day every day of training is going somewhere.

As far as Wokingham is concerned all I'm hoping for is that its not cold and wet.

25/01/2013 at 18:15
SS- The last marathon campaign I religiously followed pfitzinger and Douglas up to 85 mpw 18 week plan. So the sessions were generally two medium long runs per week (a 13 and a 15) run progressively, a long run of up to 24 run progressively or a long run with a big stint at MP (upto 14 miles in a 22 I think). There would also be a lactate threshold every other week or so and they started at 4miles and went up to 7 at slightly quicker than HMP within a 10-12 mile run. The rest of it was largely easy runs and recovery runs.

I will add that the schedule does include vo2 max intervals towards the back end of the schedule but the volume from memory was quite low and long recoveries.
25/01/2013 at 18:31

Blimey! That's some schedule 

Ric - it's Wokingham, so of course its going to be cold and wet! I di feel like I'd been hit by a bus for a bit this morning too!

Thanks for the comments guys - except Dachs! Not nice to laugh at other's misfortune  and then to rub salt into the wounds I bet you were still laughing when you went 45 secs faster than my 10k PB in training . What must give you even more comfidence though, is that it was done on feel, so you weren't beating yourself up to hit a target pace.

Also a great session from Mr SG there too! Your confidence levels for Wokingham should alos be vey high - just watch those aches and pains and make sure the stretching  happens! I'm impressed that you both found some terra firma to run on in road shoes too!

Right, as per Stevie's recommendation I'm off to drink some beer (thanks Dr See!). SG - how do you reward yourself after a tough session as a tee totaller? 


25/01/2013 at 18:35

Dave Moorcrofts sessions before his 5000m world record were either 6 x 600m in 84/85 seconds, 4 minute recovery.

Or 6 x 1000m in 2:30, 6 minute recovery.


25/01/2013 at 19:29

Ric, i misread that first one as per lap for a second..and I was thinking, that's bloody slow

Bus, it's an odd situation at the moment, fittest I've been/good form versus lingering niggle with the hip. I do my best 3 times a day with rehab stuff, and that keeps me ticking over, but would be nice to get ideal again!!

The 4miler this evening was gentle!!

I look forward to a glorious lay in as a reward! I really should have postponed my running career until after getting a wife!  This bizarre lifestyle of training, isolation and early to bed isn't going to help me now!! junior school the teacher invented an animal called an "and-eater", to stop us using the word "and" so much.

Reading my post back, I think i need an exclamation eater!

Edited: 25/01/2013 at 19:30
25/01/2013 at 20:05

Re my run today, I would point out that, at 5:44 mm pace, it is actually around, or even slightly slower than, what my tempo pace ought to be according to many definitions, i.e. 10 mile race pace.  For a 10 mile race I'd be looking to run 5:40-5:41.  So it isn't that unreasonable.  And I definitely wasn't attempting to race or time-trial it.  Right, that's my defence of that one done.  Now I shall deflect attention by reminding you all of DT2's 15 mile tempo at 5:50 pace.  Now there's a training monster...

25/01/2013 at 20:08

True Dachs, but I've never heard of anyone doing 6.2miles at their 10mile race pace

I think DT2s session was a "mere" MP job

25/01/2013 at 21:20

You guys need to ask RJ about the half marathon he did in training on the way into work one morning. When he did that it was apparent that the plans he had for London weren't pipe dreams but were well laid plans. SG: you need to take a leaf from his book as he had a plan and worked towards it: same for you and Wokingham: you have enough pointers to know what you can do: you have knocked off a bunch of WAVA gradings in the 77% region and that is a 76 half so don't piss about with 5:57 when you need 5:48 and 76. I don't think 75 is on the cards for a while yet but it is there one day for sure.

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