Moraghan Training - Stevie G

Bus, over dressing for training runs in colder conditions was a tactic advised by Ian Thompson. It might not be comfortable but when the sun makes its presence felt, I'll be ready for it.

Clothes for today, Hat, long sleeve top, Helly H and cycle type shorts. Obviously shoes and socks.

Ss. You are aware you've just hit the 'wall' on that training run.

From my own experience of wiping my glycogen stores out in training (fast miles and lots of them) is that unless you start loading up like for a marathon, then the next few days are likely to be dire. You may have to take time out.

From some research I did before tapping this out, you may need three days at 2000kcal / day of carbo, easy running for three days to get to optimum levels.

You might have to wait a bit for that sun though Ric!

Matt - good luck with your application for the Ben race - definitely one on my to do list at some point!

Interesting thought there Ric. I can see the logic though. I suppose it's another case of specificity. I find I get very hot running, even at my glacial pace.

Bus - the Chilterns were very busy today with cyclists. I missed the tri club group cycle yesterday, so went out with a few guys from my running club. That wind was a killer.

Well, if you will have a Vindaloo the night before IC 

I've not stopped eating since that long run! Mackerels, a Chinese (not take away), ice cream, recovery shake, crumpets and peanut butter, 2 toast, sweets, and some summer berry pie. Plus about 8 litres of water!

I certainly wouldn't put MP miles into a LSR again unless I was in marathion mode. Massive respect to you boys who do it, I found it very tough. It did indeed feel 'wall esque' but obviously I dropped the pace to 7:30 so could amble on home with ease.

Next PB race is Trafford 10K on the 10th of March Bus, it's fast but I've never ran well there. So I'm dropping the usual March HM  and focusing on this. This is a base period of sorts in preparation for going to Portugal then hitting the track season for 3-5Ks.

Deano, yep that's the guy, won Wilmslow AND Trafford, whilst Raven came 3rd at Wilmslow. Obviously had bad days but also show how Stu thrives in adversity!

SG - just an ask, how come you don't have much interest in your county/regional XC champs? Surly the county champs would be a good measure for you?

10miles way into your training run, and then running it controlled at quicker than most people on here's 10mile pbs RJ?! I think you're on the wrong thread son

Stevie, at the moment I tend to split my races between fast road quality field races, Sunday "Interesting" XC courses, and one or 2 non pb road courses that have personal meaning, like the local 10k with it's big mile long hill.

The idea of smashing laps round a grassy park over 8-10miles against local big hitters when neither a time nor a high placing is possible seems unnecessary for me.

I like to think RJ has alighted on this thread because of our attitude towards training and racing, rather than just speed of execution.

As for being on the wrong thread. Both Ss and RJ have demonstrated common ground with masses of 'posters' on the site.

With their ability to stuff their faces!

You know? Thread title, 'How much can I eat?'

"Hi there, I've just joined a gym and can do 1km in 6 minutes. I've heard that running burns loads of calories and just wondered how much more can I eat?" The other thing is, how does anyone eat while on the treadmill, its sooo awkward and the gym staff are sooo unreasonable too.

Wow.. you lot have been busy!

RJ – That’s just ridiculous. Any reason you didn’t run Canterbury yesterday? Top 5 finish with your ‘tempo’ run time. Personally, the weather reports and moving house put me off travelling over there but good to the TWHarriers kick the KGP off to a good start.

SG – I believe you’re what certain circles may call a ‘Glory Hunter’ no?

SS – Nice long run with the MP tempo. I officially start marathon training this week and have a similar long run on Sunday – 2hrs 15 (approx19 miles) with last 60mins to include 3x 15 mins @ MP. Also moving house that day so not quite sure how I’m going to fit it all in but where there’s a will there’s a way.

Ric – nice steady run. Now I’ve bought myself a bike, if you’ve got any advice on how I could maybe include some turbo training I’d like to hear it as it’s several times now you’ve mentioned the gains you feel you gotten by cross training.

Seb – Great race report. Sounds (and looks by the pics!) cold, dirty and just what XC should be! Great result too and I think in view of the conditions, a 6.30 pace is not to be sniffed at. Is that your XC officially done and dusted now then?

Dean – snap on the shorts for the long run. It was a lovely 10degrees here although I did have a headwind to contend with for the majority of my 17 mile long run. Happy with a 7.21 average myself and just behind you on the weekly mileage too.

Iron – No rest day since the 16th? No wonder it caught up with you. I’m assuming you do put some easy/recovery sessions in there though over those days or is it a case of doing different sessions (swim/run/bike) on different days and therefore working different muscle groups? Still, I’d think that knackers you out more!

Matt – always tough getting the miles in when away from home so i’d say you’ve done a good job to do a 50mile week. Bet you’re biting at the bit to do one of your monster speed sessions with your club mates! Ben Nevis sounds as ridiculous as I’m sure it is btw. What’s the deal with entries then? First come first served or do you need to prove you’ve got form and won’t be a liability to the organisers??

Cheeky Johnas. The old me definitely was a bit like that, did plenty of low key races for some high finishes.

Now the value of a quality field for road racing is obvious! It's just the quality field offroad stuff I don't overly get.

Johnas,

The bike 'thing' I have tended to keep to myself. 

I spent years blasting to and from work on a bike and under estimated the benefit of the exercise. 

I calculate each minute of cycling as the same equivalent of running at a similar effort. There's a reference to this as RE mileage. And when at my best, my running mileage plus plus RE mileage was well over 100 per week.

I realise I've never broken 36 mins for 10k on running alone. Whereas when I broke 34 minutes for the first time, I was running intervals every other day and going flat out on the bike 30mins am & pm on the other days.

I find by using a HR monitor that for any perceived effort, the HR is lower on the bike than running. So my method was to run easier but cycle harder.

Since the cycle to work stopped about 10 years ago. I haven't bothered cycling much at all. In fact; after some incident a couple of years back, I haven't been out on the bike once.

Having discovered that a club mate had made up for a lack of running by smashing the pedals an hour each end of the day. Doing 55mins at the CP off the back of it (yes that guy, he of the broken foot) I thought I'd better get back to it.

nice honesty Ric.

reminds me of those threads where people claim to be doing super times off tiny mileage. And then admit they also cycle 100miles a week or swim 5 hours a week , or used to be a pro sportsman etc!

Best I saw was some girl saying she broke 19mins for 5k off 10miles a week. Turns out she only did track stuff, and only counted the rep mileage. Didn't count, the warm up, recoveries or cool downs. Which would at least have trebled the mileage.

SG, yes a number of runners have inadvertently dismissed miles of running since they were only easy stuff. Even knew a guy who reckoned he only ran 50 miles per week while disregarding the four mile each way commute.

Same guy even ditched a 16 miler since that was jogging to his mothers house, not with the guys.

Sometimes with this running business, we need to take a step back to see why we perform at the level we do.

For instance, I ran 62 mins at the Maidenhead 10 because I had a sore leg. I ran sub 59 mins (or a 58) at the CP because I didn't. But what stopped me going faster?

Ans, I simply wasn't strong enough. 

So in theory we are working to eradicate areas of weakness.

Now there are a few runners who can develop leg strength simply on account of their running action. The further they go the stronger they get. I'm not one of them.

The further I go the more battered my legs get. I get fitter for sure and my endurance improves but my quads get damaged, not stronger. So the bike is required.

 Hence the 2:46 marathon off a six month average of 18.5 miles per week. (and about 80 miles worth of RE biking)

Now that I've mentioned battered legs. How is everyone today? Have we survived the weekend?

Good points Ric, generally in racing you get what you deserve. Of course the weather can slow you, but generally aside from that you get the result of your current ability.

I can only think of a small handful of my 141 races where I haven't done. A couple of Wycombe halves probably. They tell me that Wycombe is 2mins slower than a flat course, but I came in 5 1/2mins slower in 2010!

I was feeling fine until seeing a pal marshalling I foolishly mimed smoking an imaginary cigar to show how easy it was. Almost immediately it became real hard work. And the rest is history!

Should probably do Wycombe or Marlow halfs again one year. I suppose the only question though, is why would you shunt such hard races into your calendar when you aren't going to get close to your pb?

Wycombe I suppose isn't in the key Spring and Autumn peak zones, but Marlow would rule out Gosport, and is just before the XC season.

i can understand someone not counting their warmup mileage / cool down mileage or recoveries between intervals if the pace was v slow that it was barely a shuffle at the track.  (I dont mean the warm up mileage in say a tempo where the first 2 miles are done at 7.30 pace then the next 4 miles are 6mm pace)

I also dont count the strides in my mileage when im warming up for a track session, nor the laps of the track i do when i moving very slowly before a session doing heel kicks etc.  Oh and i dont count going upstairs to put my kit on either

SG, indeed, getting the results of current ability. This is true. What is less appreciated is how you can maintain a level on only half of the volume needed to achieve that level.

You have to select the correct 'top ups' but it can be done.

A stationary RI between Intervals doesn't really add up to much. I don't count warmups at races towards mileage.

Johnas - I've had a look back. Since the 16th I'd done:
~4 hrs of FTP intervals (above tempo - think flat out for 1 hour)
~4.5hrs running - most of it easy due to the snow. Probably 1.5hr slightly below tempo
~1.5hr swimming. Last Monday was a swim only day.

The swims should be easier on the legs, but both Mon and Fri were kick focussed non of the bike was easy apart from the RIs. I guess even the easy runs were spiky on HR due to the snowy/XC nature of them.

Ric, I can see that. On the way up you're unsure of what you can do. You have to learn to run at a pace. Then that pace suddenly becomes the norm.

Iron, why wouldn't you count warm up on race days? That could total 2 1/2-3miles itself, though I sometimes struggle to force a full 3out.

Maybe your warm up is shorter?

I overheard a chap at the Tadley race seeing me steaming around and saying to his mate "he's serious"

Although that might have been because it was freezing col and I was down to vest and shorts already.

Deep heat does wonders I find!

RicF wrote (see)

(and now for the knockout punch)

"what's your best time?"

" two.........."

No need to tell them any more. 

SG, I know what your views on marathons are, but a sub 3 is the only way to silence critics outside an Olympic medal.

I have never fond someone who doesn't run who understands sub 3 at all. I have trouble with people who think that finishing a marathon is the goal: so that isn't even runinng it all: it is starting and ending 26.2 miles later be it run, jog, walk, pass out and recover and carry on.