Over 60s training.

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07/03/2003 at 08:16
Good to hear from you Pussy. Glad I am not on my own, I found your input very interesting and encouraging. I too find that the programmes in runners' world very useful.

Boy oh boy 20 miles, I think a runner is more impressed with someone running that distance in a training run than a non runner. The response I usually get from a non runner is, oh I cannot run, I am not a runner I just get our of breath. End of conversation!

Both you and Johnny must be mentally preparing yourselves for the race from now onwards. Do either of you make use of the pace making groups that there are now available in FLM or have you considered it at all? We over 60's are meant to get more dehydrated than our younger counterparts. Do you find , either of you need to take on a lot of water when you run the longer distances, more than younger runners?. On a training run I presume that you can only take max a ltr of fluid with you. Do you use a sports drink to help with the fluid loss. I sweat a lot more than most people, which I know can keep me cooler but can be a problem getting fluid back in.
07/03/2003 at 10:56
Morning Ceal. I don't really need to prepare mentally. I enjoy the whole thing and I'm quite relaxed about it.
On the matter of liquid intake I too sweat alot but I'm not conscious of the need to take on gallons of liquid.

Training up to 10 miles I drink maybe 1/2 pint of water before leaving and that's it.
Training over 10 miles I drink about 1/2 pint of 50/50 water sports drink mixed and take a similar quantity with me in a 'D' shaped, hand held water bottle. That saw me through 18 miles quite comfortably.

Racing's different. Start hydrated with 50/50 sports drink mix but not to the level where it's sloshing about or where I'm going to need to stop for a pee. Up to 10 mile races I don't drink during the run.

Half marathons I use two water stations if available. Preferably early on and mid-race. I drink maybe half a cup each time; no more.

Marathons I take very small quantities about every 2 miles. More on this one later.

A lot of current research is suggesting that large intakes of fluid are not necessary on a daily basis and can even be a bad thing. The idea is that too much liquid is washing out vital minerals and salts. I guess we're back to the old saying 'moderation in all things'. It usually works.
JJ
10/03/2003 at 09:39
JJ Thanks for the fluid intake advice.

How was your run yesterday as guest of your local club? I ran about 15 miles yesterday, just under half of that was into a severe head wind. I was running around our local resevoir. My legs felt so heavy afterward. It was my hardest training run for a while. I chatted to some younger runners afterwards. (In their 30's). They also found it tough and had very tired legs. Sometimes I felt as if I was hardly moving forward! The local Sailing Club were out in force and I was kept entertained by the numerous captsizes, which kept my mind off my body for some fo the time. As usual after a long run, In found it difficult to relax and thus I did not sleep well, however, tonight should see me passing out very easily.

On Friday, I took action and changed my session from a sprint speed session on the treadmill to running hills. There is advice on the pponline site about this. I ran as follows:-

10 mins warm up
3x1 mile runs uphill, gradient 3 with a scant 5 mins slower jog inbetween. I ran the hills at about my half marathon pace.

3 miles was all I could manage at that speed and gradient. This amounted to just over 5 miles, run in 47 minutes including the warm up. Next week I wil try and add another mile to the session and so on each week. Challenge is to reach 6 mile repeats and then try and reduce the interval rest inbetween. Then to repeat the process with gradient 4. I think that should take me a good few weeks/months to complete. Will keep you posted on this. I may find it makes me too tired.
10/03/2003 at 10:03
Ceal. Sounds like a tough few days. Just keep making haste slowly and don't move up a level until you are comfortable with what you are doing now. Bear in mind the received wisdom that you should not increase speed or distance by more than 10% at a time.
My 18 miler with the local club went very well thanks - 2hrs 50mins but with something left in the tank. It was nice to see some of the younger ones whimping out and changing to a 15 mile circuit as the run went on. Legs only moderately stiff this morning so that's good too. No training today. Half marathons on the next two Sundays and that's that as far as FLM training is concerned except for the 2 weeks taper. I'm looking forward to the carbo-loading.
Keep in touch.
JJ
11/03/2003 at 00:23
Hi folks......back again. Had a couple of runs whilst down in Norfolk. Steady 5miles on Friday morn and 4miles beach and roads near Yarmouth. As my immediate taste is only for 10k that is why I dont do double figured mileages. What I have found out is I feel better about my training runs by making sure of a few minutes jog warm-up(previously used to fervently run for 3 miles at same pace with no warmup first)and also varying the speeds of the running. So I reckon I will try some interval training for a change!
11/03/2003 at 00:24
BTW the 4miles run was Sunday evening.
11/03/2003 at 07:41
L/imp sounds like sensisble running. Enjoy.

JJ. the time sounded good for the 18 mile training run, especially as you had something left in the tank. I cannot remember what time you are hoping to achieve on the day, I will keep in touch.
12/03/2003 at 20:37
Anyone out there in the ether?

Ceal. Will be v. happy with anything inside 4 hours.

After 18 on Sunday I rested on Monday, ran 6 on Tuesday, ran 7 this morning with 6 x 250m sprints (relatively) and some longer faster bits. I have been soooooo...tired all day today I could have easily gone for a lie down at work. Bed v. early tonight and no, definitely no, training tomorrow.

Hope all's well with everyone else.
JJ
13/03/2003 at 00:29
JJ and Ceal.....
You are both the doyen of the 60agers. I wish I could emulate your performances. Still, all the more for having a go! Had a 7 miler today around a 3mile perimeter lake so had to contend with a stiff Northerly headwind at times. Suppose although offputting it does toughen your run after all it could be just as windy on race days.
Tomorrow no run....just gym work. Then Friday a little 3 miler.
13/03/2003 at 07:35
LI.
You run 7, I run 7. Looks like we have a competition going. Anything that makes you work harder at training is a good thing. You can also put a tail wind to good use by doing some sprints with longer strides. This will help your speed and, psychologically, you look and feel like a fast runner so make sure someone's watching. I haven't done gym work in years. Maybe I'm missing something.
Rest day today. Doing a bit of a taper for Hastings 1/2m on Sunday.
Keep at it.
JJ
13/03/2003 at 11:18
JJ.
Sprints are something I will have to get into. I now know that just plodding along at same pace trying to go faster that way won't be the answer. Tailwind idea of longer strides sounds ok....conversely recovery pace could be suited to a headwind!
Good luck on your half at Hastings......maybe you'll get a chess set at the finish.
LI
14/03/2003 at 07:35
Morning LI
We all need faster bits of running if we are to race effectively otherwise you condition the muscles into 'one-pace' operation. You then race only marginally faster than you train.
There's an article in my local paper today about a guy aged 72 who's doing his 5th. consecutive FLM, having started only 5 years ago. Go for it!
I assume from the Hastings/chess reference that you're a chess fan. I've got two very good chess sets but if I play, very poorly, it's not more than twice a year. My wife, who has an intellect a mile high and a memory like an elephant, has never learned (she would be brilliant) so the set stays in the cupboard.
More anon.
JJ
14/03/2003 at 08:16
Hi JJ & LI. There does not seem to be anyone else around this week except us three.

LI I feel very flattered that you put me in the same oldies catagory as JJ, however, I do not belong there, JJ runs marathons, so the respect he deserves is far greater than that for myself!!

I am not sure what the reference is to the Hastings half and a chess set, am I missing something here?

LI I agree with JJ about the sprint training/change of pace running in order to hopefully run faster. So keep with your interval training. It also makes it more fun and gives one something to focus on in a run rather than just running for a set distance or time. It also can add a challenge to the run, which is much easier to achieve than running a set training run distance in a faster time than the one ran before.

As for myself this week, I ran 15 miles on Sunday then two runs of 5 plus miles, second of which was at a faster pace than the first, this second run I found hard, mainly because I ran it fast from the onset. However, I seemed to recover OK. Then today I will continue with my low grade hill running on the treadmill, at gradient 3 again. I will aim to run for 5/6 miles, intersperced with slower jogging recoveries of 5 minutes. I had aimed to run 30 miles this week and I will have achieved this by the end of today. Next weeks training will be an 8 day week, as we are going out for lunch on Sunday, so will have to do my long run on Monday. The following week will be messed up as I have to go to S London for 3 days to look after my grand children, no chance to run there! But I expect the rest will do me nothing but good.

JJ All the best for the half on Sunday, I look forward to hearing all about it.
14/03/2003 at 08:50
Ceal.
Hastings promotes a major international chess tournament. Thanks for the good wishes; it all helps. Btw, 15 miles is well on the way to 26.2!
JJ
14/03/2003 at 09:10
Hi everyone,
I am here, lurking as always!
Have a good weekend.
14/03/2003 at 10:13
Hi all.
Beautiful morning in S.Yorkshire. Will be going to Lincoln to take mum shopping etc but before that parking car up at country park to do a run.
JJ. Pity your good lady doesn't play chess.Mind you my opponents are all on Yahoo Games chess website.If you fancy looking and if you have anytime spare try a game or two. You can play "quickies" also.
Ceal. As JJ says you're heading for definite marathon potential.
Bado kidogo. Kwaheri(sorry Swahili!)
14/03/2003 at 21:25
Hi everybody. Its me again. I'm just recovering from my recovery run - and what better way to do it than see what you lot are nattering about. I'm still making my sub 4 targets but not convinced that I can run it on the day. I think that I am physically capable of it, but maybe not mentally capable. I think it will take huge mental strength to keep pushing after about 16 miles.

Ceal mentioned pacemakers. They are BRILLIANT. The sub 4.30 gang saved me from the wilderness at about 17 miles and whisked me along. Up until then I really didn't believe that I could run any faster. The mental problem again! This year I start in the green start and I think all the RW pacers start on red. So in theory I should be ahead of them. But if I really lose the plot they will pick me up.

As for drinking. I could sweat for England. I have bottles of water stuffed in the hedges all round the countryside. In the FLM I always have a botle of something in my hand. Probably over do it, as you say. But I don't have the confidence to run without it. It's is my crutch!

Of all the good by-products of running (and sweat is probably one of those!) I find that the after run stretching is the most beneficial. I have promised myself that when I stop running I will not stop regular stretching. Just 10 minutes after every run except the long one. I think I have punished my body enough without stretching it as well.
And Ceal, don't laugh at the capsized sailors. Sailing is my number one sport and you have no idea how much good that cold water does to your leg muscles. Ask Paula!

Cheers everybody. Have a good Sunday run.
14/03/2003 at 22:11
Hey, JJ. I forgot to mention that I actually met the world record holding older runner from my club last Tuesday evening, when I met the others at the YMCA to go speed training. He'd just popped in to deliver some stuff to the blokes and wasn't running (he's been injured) but he says he's on the way back. I felt he had the look of a world record holder about him!
14/03/2003 at 23:04
Just wandered on here, curiosity aroused by thread title, as speed is something I quite definitely lack at the moment.
The chess fans could do worse than download WinBoard from the GNU site (go
14/03/2003 at 23:07
here and navigate your way round - there are loads of different downloads available) if you want a decent standard opponent. WinBoard provides a Win32 front end to a very strong chess program.
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