Over 60s training.

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16/05/2013 at 21:58

Nice day here. Took the doodle for a swim in a local lake.

TS
I have been evaluating M70 racing and training for some time now. It's the matter of recovery forms the biggest part of the equation. It can take days to recover from one hard session so training becomes limited either by frequency or by distance. M70s will typically be running only 3 to 5 miles per session if they want to train 5 or 6 times a week. Those who are doing 6 - 10 miles per session are unlikely to train more than 3 days a week. Either of these options are a limit on race performance.  It's not a coincidence that there are proportionally far fewer M70s than M60s and in general it's because of the huge drop in performance that training can't off set. Of course there are a few exceptions but they are the lucky ones with the right genetic makeup rather than a determination to train harder or better.

Btw, I'm not complaining. I find the whole process interesting and it's a challenge to experiment and see what works and what doesn't.

I'm just grateful at the amount of exercise I can still do.
JJ

16/05/2013 at 23:25

Graham - nice work! It has been a long time since I ran any mile starting with a 6!

Torque Steer - rep miles - all well under 7s, very impressive. I'd be lucky to get one under 7! Your training is going so well, very happy for you.

JJ - My 70 plus friend only recently dropped off his running ability. He must be about 75 now, but he regularly ran about 9 miles a day, now he walk/runs, think it might be reduced to about 6 miles a day. He has stopped running marathons, not because he couldn't complete them, but he said he wouldn't enjoy them any more. Sad, as he was such a great motivator to new, young runners. 

Nothing much to report, been slack this week, did get out yesterday with Mae for about 46 minutes, not sure if I'll get out today.

aws
17/05/2013 at 07:52

Good morning

5.12M; 1:04:39.7; 12:38/M; 8°C

Keeping the genes at bay - or should that be jeans? Both actually, I definitely don't run in jeans.

JJ - I run 3 times a week, although I miss one occasionally. You get flexibility though, if you miss one day you can do the next instead. I do 5, 6, or 7miles sometimes one of each and if I do 3 the same it's always 5s, as this week. I can't call it training though, indeed it's not meant to be. It's purely cosmetic - preserving the waistline. I nearly lost it once but not since I've been running regularly.

al

17/05/2013 at 11:50
Good day,

In brief!
I visited my Physio yesterday, he found a Bakers cyst the size of a soft pea at the back of my knee, and said that it most likely was pressing on a nerve. Hence the type of pain I experience, especially at night. He suggested aspiration was the way to go and that would relive the pressure on the nerve. This takes place whilst using ultra sound at the same time so that the exact place is reached with a needle.

I went to the Dr's this morning, different one, younger, definitely the 'don't mess with me' type, 'I know it all, and you know nothing'! She had cloth ears to the word private. She said that they wouldn't aspirate a cyst the size of a pea and it would settle down. But she did offer an x ray and an ultra sound.

I have had an X-ray, They can't do the ultra sound today. The X-ray is bound to show wear and tear, after all I am 70+yrs. But to what degree we shall see.

Not feeling great about it, but there is an improvement each day and that it is what I am hanging on to.
17/05/2013 at 11:51
aws
Impressive run again this morning.

Graham
Your legs are keeping sharp. Hope your stay in Stratford will be a good one.
17/05/2013 at 11:58

good morning

aws
that was a quick one for you!!

JJ
A very good indicator of whether training is the wrong intensity is whether or not one can go out the next day and do the programmed training. If not then the the previous day's intensity was too high. Adapt, improvise, learn and find what the body can maintain. There is new research coming along all the time as this is the first generation where folk have, in large numbers, actively sought to prolong sporting activity.

NZC
Thanks - it's going "quite" well as I don't want to put a jink on it! I have managed to get to the next plateau of training intensity and will concentrate on consolidating there for a few weeks more
I am sure once the marathon is out of your legs you will be able to blast through some mile reps at sub 7's - your 5K times bear that out 

My weather altering qualities seem to have been short lived as this morning was cool and misty but still ideal running weather.

8.5 miles done in 71:24 (8:24m/m) with avHR 132 (67%WHR) and a max of 145

1m  9:54  121  136 just eased into the big uphill start 
2m  7:34  129  132
3m  7:54  135  145
4m  8:04  135  142
5m  8:16  134  139 conciously slowed down to keep HR even
6m  8:26  134  138
7m  8:29  134  139
8m  8:30  134  141 Hipps Hill 
.5m 4:11  134  139

Felt pretty controlled throughout and no real fatigue from yesterday's intervals - mustn't have run them hard enough!!!

17/05/2013 at 12:06

Ceal
I am surprised you took that sort of carp from a wet behind the ears doc !!!

Baker's cysts are normally left untreated unless they are impinging on other activities which yours obviously is!!! 
you may well be surprised by your x ray - the phrase "wear and tear" is bandied about to cover a multitude of sins - ask if it is higher than they would expect for "normal" wear and tear.
My xrays a couple years back came back clear apart from some signs of "wear and tear" and when I asked whether that meant abnormal deterioration they said very definitely "no" - it was much less than someone of my age and history

17/05/2013 at 13:36

Afternoon all

Ceal-Hope everything is resolved with your injury  sooner than later.

Graham-Ultra fast miles you ran there,well done.

TS--Every time i look in on this thread you have done another super session.
Thinking back to the problems you had it is all the more remarkable,and i think you will just get quicker.

Made a mistake for myself as i went to one of those spinning classes at the gym.
That was on wednesday and i can barely walk, its like i ran a marathon.
Hope my legs recover in time for a little run on sunday.Next week starts a series of 10k in the summer league,will try to do some of them.

17/05/2013 at 17:35

Off to Oxford this weekend to look after grandchildren so I doubt I will post for a couple of days.

Ceal
At least the problem has been properly identified. That's most of the problem solved.

TS
You are right. If tiredness or muscle soreness is apparent the day after training it's too much. Most guys in their 70s have discovered that 3 days training a week or 5 days if it's very short distances like 3 miles is about the level that can be sustained
JJ.

17/05/2013 at 19:02

TS,
Another good run in the bag.

Busbar,
I had to laugh at the spinning class. It is amazing how easy it is to get sore doing something only a little bit different from your normal activities.

JJ,
One thing I have noticed as I approach 70 is how the number of people I knew as well motivated runners 25 years ago has diminished.

An interesting run today, 9.3k, including some deer trails that meander through the bush alongside the river where I normally run. A little technical in places but still enjoyable.

17/05/2013 at 19:07

JJ,

Sounds about right what you say about over 70s likely to run 3 times a week or depending on distance possibly 5 outings. Thats the way I feel with my running, I have drifted into that sort of bracket.  Most weeks it is 3 and on odd occasions 4 times a week.  Rest and recovery becomes more important as we age it is clear to see .

Hence my best interest these days are the 5k races.  Shan't be doing one tomorrow though as I shall be taking Marg and her sister to Manch. airport.  Her sister recently won a competition ran by the WVS she works for,
the prize...a free week's holiday for two in Benidorm .  

It'll seem strange for me as we have always  holidayed together everywhere.  I don't mind her going it'll give her a well deserved break. 

17/05/2013 at 19:19

As per normal,  an easy Wednesday with a 4 mile run/walk recovery, 1 mile slow run and 3miles up and down hills walking.

Today back to a goodish run.  First 2 and 3/4 miles warmup on uppity trails. Then I thought I'd check the distance of the new 5k RV  parkrun. A one lap circular course.       Turned out to be a little short by 0.06m but then that could easily be due to a lot of the course being  widish so it depended on where the footfall went !  In other words a lot of runners would have different readings showing on their timepieces. A straight 3.1 mile would be best for accuracy but would be most boring to boot!

Edited: 17/05/2013 at 19:19
17/05/2013 at 19:28

Had a bit of trouble with typing that post so sent it without times.

Mile times first 2 and 3/4  was  12.28, 11.14 and 10.55 pace (for 3/4m)

5k test 10.29, 10.19, 9.51 and 0.57 for 0.10 ( I stopped after finish point where Garmin said 3.1miles).  Warmdown 0.72m back along the riverside trail.

Total mileage 6.55

TS,

You're right it is the same place which you ran in the 10k a few years back when I first met you.  By the way, the 5k also has some of that rough surface which you didn't like too much,  as you said then you like" smooth not rough" .

17/05/2013 at 20:48

 

aws - great run 

 

Ceal problem your knee continues to get better.

 

Most I run is 3 times a week and a circuit exercise DVD.

17/05/2013 at 20:54

 

My friend Debbie (Roobarb on RW & Fetch) didn't manage to do our 7 miles yesterday due to tummy.

 

Tuesday 4 miles 37:12 

Thusday 7 miles 1:12:23

Sunday I'm doing Great Baddow 10

 

17/05/2013 at 21:01

JJ - how are you evaluating M70 racing and training? - through observation of people you know (including yourself), or noting race performances of people you don't know personally, or something else? Or both those? And I wonder if anyone's doing the same thing for the F70s, of whom there seem to be even fewer. Than M70s, I mean.

Ceal - good to hear of the improvement, and of the fact that you have a diagnosis; I mean, a Thing with a Name.

Impey - I hope you don't mind the week alone too much.

I'm running 3 times a week at present - once with the running club, one interval or pyramid session or some such thing, and a longish run. That's the theory, anyway, but just did a gentle 3.2 miles today, saving myself for the 10-mile effort on Sunday.

18/05/2013 at 01:11

Columba/ Tracey - good luck with the 10 milers.

Aws - good on you for getting out there - think that's a beg reason for must of us - trying to control the waistline

Ceal - couldn't your own doctor withdraw the fluid? I know they don't like to, but it seemed to work for my friend, though like you I would like to know that the needle was indeed going in the right place.

Torque Steer - another good run.

busbar - that's not good - nice to try new things but not if they stop you doing what you really love doing.

JJ - have a lovely time with your grand children.

Mick - be careful of the ticks the deer leave behind on the trees - don't go brushing by the trees or you could be in trouble. My son spent some quality time in a NY hospital after orienteering where deer had been.

 

18/05/2013 at 01:20

This morning I went back to the Cornwall Park run 5km. It was pouring down with rain when I woke up and was trying to decide whether to go or not and my son rang and said he was going and would run/walk with Mae, so that was it.

I was late getting there, so not much warm-up. The rain stopped, but everywhere was wet and muddy. Didn't really feel like I got going, I just couldn't run any faster. I will have to do some speedwork to get the legs ticking over.

There are lots of sharp turns, so after about 200m, there is a sharp right turn and because of the muddy conditions one guy near me had a big slide. I settled in and pretty much ran by myself until about the 4km mark where I was catching a girl, who called out to her mother saying she wanted to stop. Instead of the mother saying that she was running well, the stupid women just yelled at her to run faster! Poor girl, and few metres later she pulled out. Sad, as she'd already done most of the hard work.

Anyway - 1km 4.52, 2km. 4.54, 3km 5.04 (long hill), 4km 4.47, 5km 5.06

24.24

Think all I can say is that it is a good way to do an effort run.

Edited: 18/05/2013 at 01:22
18/05/2013 at 01:24

Sorry Aws - I couldn't change the typing mistakes in my other post.

Edited: 18/05/2013 at 01:27
aws
18/05/2013 at 07:00

Good morning

nrd

NZC - Why apologise to me? I'm not the keyboard police.

al

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