Overdone it?

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19/03/2014 at 09:51

Well I had to use my calculator and thinking about it I didn't add on any margin for the extra bits you do over race distance either.

19/03/2014 at 10:00

No-one was more astonished than me when I pulled off an almost perfect McMillan-style conversion last year. However, the half I'd raced was the one with the giant-sized hill in it, so should arguably have been a bit faster than it was. I won't be taking anything for granted this year.

Meanwhile, when following a schedule with only one hard session a week, it's always pleasing to have got it done. I was cursing our decision to use the 1st edition of P&D for the first time today as it had 6x 1200m @ 5k pace off 2 mins, rather than the 2nd edition version of 5x 1200m with 50%-90% of rep time as recovery, which would clearly have been a lot easier. It was also still quite windy out there, and I use a stretch of canal towpath, so I did reps 1,2 and 5 with the wind behind me and 3,4 and 6 into the teeth of a howling gale. It turned out pretty consistent though, and 2 mins recovery was ample - 90% would have been ridiculous! 4 mins later you'd have forgotten you'd even done a rep.

Times were 4:27, 4:21, 4:27, 4:26, 4:27, 4:27. If you are good at maths you will notice that this is a small bit faster than actual 5k pace, which is obviously because I wanted to make my recent triumphant parkrun PB look a bit shit. In rep 1 my interval training superego kept telling me 'don't overcook this or you'll fail later and look like a twat!' but it forgot to mention this on rep 2.

19/03/2014 at 10:01

Cheers Bob. I felt the need to test out the new zones so was quite pleasing in that respect.

Skinny - i'd be delighted with GFA sub 3:15 to be honest. But i know i can do better than that and what's the point of getting up at 5am in the cold, windy, rainy darkness all winter to run 15M just to run a couple of minutes quicker than last year.

19/03/2014 at 10:07

Lit - similar for me today, half of each rep with the wind and half against it to try and get a bit of consistency of pace/effort overall on each rep. 4 mins recovery is a bit much, i usually aim for 50%.

You must be in a similar position to me though ? Surely you have to go with the pacer, what other strategy is there ?

EDIT : great consistency from you there apart from the white elephant in the room

Edited: 19/03/2014 at 10:09
19/03/2014 at 10:07
mace wrote (see)

what's the point of getting up at 5am in the cold, windy, rainy darkness all winter to run 15M just to run a couple of minutes quicker than last year.

HEY!!! That more or less sums up my whole plan! 

19/03/2014 at 10:09

Lit - storming session - you're getting fast!

Mace - strongly agree - I would add that you never really know if you will achieve this level of fitness ever again so make it a good one - don't put off a goal for tomorrow if you can achieve it relatively safely today (not withstanding all the uncertainties of running over 26 miles).

It really is a shame you're not both doing the same marathon as you seem to be very evenly matched right now.

19/03/2014 at 10:09

mace - I just did the 2 mins specified in 1st ed., which is a bit less than 50% but was more than enough. I'm not going with a pacer if he's got a big crowd of mid-life crisis blokes who only think they can do sub 3 hours clustered round him. They'll get in my way and piss me off.

19/03/2014 at 10:10

But i had a bit more room for improvement as your gold mara trump pisses all over mine

19/03/2014 at 10:13

Lit- dont be so mean about Wenty

19/03/2014 at 10:21
literatin wrote (see)

 I'm not going with a pacer if he's got a big crowd of mid-life crisis blokes who only think they can do sub 3 hours clustered round him. They'll get in my way and piss me off.


Ha !! that would be me


Skinny -  'relatively safely' is interesting. I don't think i'd be hitting any walls but it would be very uncomfortable. Although this time the services of a pacer may help as well ... last time i was deliberately slow away and had to play catch up from 13-20. By 22M i couldn't see the pacer ( at that point i later worked out he was probably 60 secs ahead) , had screwed my laps up and couldn't think properly so eased off a bit. Used up a lot of energy mentally IMO.



19/03/2014 at 10:22

19/03/2014 at 10:22

Erm, present company excepted, of course! But there is a 'type', I think...

19/03/2014 at 10:29

Cracking session by the way.

Also, this just in from RW: "I know some of you have received your registration from London Marathon and are in the wrong colour start. They will send you another registration next week."

So I've got no bloody idea what start I'm going off at the moment.  Will keep you posted! 

19/03/2014 at 10:29

Friggin' 'ell, Lit - that's about 18:30 pace!  

19/03/2014 at 10:33

Mace - Thanks. I had exactly the same reservations about the McMillian prediction for the hm pace (6:38 min/mile) off 5k pace. In fact doing that session last night and trying to hit 5k pace and getting nowhere near I wondered how the hell I'd ever ran that fast. I can't even contemplate your 6:48 over 26 miles but judging from your session the marathon training has done you the world of good and I wouldn't be surprised to see you managing that.

Lou - I was up in front but would be surprised if anyone had hit 5k pace. Chatting afterwards it was more like 7 min/mile pace for some of the other lads who are running 20min 5k's at the moment, so around their hmp too.

Tommy - Tuesday club sessions are where most of my quality sessions are done and I get close to or exceed the paces I've hit in races. The club are trying to introduce another quality variation for Saturday mornings for the stronger runners.  I've done it once but it really takes it out of you ahead of the long run. It might be a fortnightly thing for me that one with a very lazy long run to follow on with.

In terms of the other training, I do fit in 7-8 miles one day a week where I build to between hmp and mp for 3 or 4 miles. On the long run on Sunday (between 12-15miles recently), depending on feel, I might incorporate 3-5 miles touching on mp pace too. I try to do that on the return portion as it involves uphill work. Everything else I do is mostly recovery paced, might be one or two 3 mile outings in a week; occasionally if I'm feeling lively I have done some of the HIT hill routines, bounding and 10 x10 seconds sprinting with recoveries at the end of those.

I'm not following a plan but just trying to build up mileage, incorporate some moderately hard effort going on feel, while keeping an eye on my heart rate, and stick with the club quality sessions. This might be an opportune to moment to post the mileage progress since I started running.





19/03/2014 at 10:38

lit: storming through the reps!  Were you imagining yourself as a cheetah? 

I think I'm a small bit good at maths so based on your PaRkRuN pb, those reps seem nearer your 3k than 5k pace .  Also, what happened to the rule of not more than 5k of reps at 5k pace?  You seem to have done 7.2k at near 3k pace.  Full of the joys of spring?  Your 5k pb is suddenly looking soft.  Are you targeting mace's gold cell?

19/03/2014 at 10:49




Skinny -  'relatively safely' is interesting.



I meant McMillan is telling you 6:48 - 6:52 must be safe relative to 6:48 - 4 seconds a mile doesn't sound a lot but it feels a lot.

Lit - I think the 'type' would probably cover me, Mace, Bob, Muddy and possibly Lou and Richard - anyway I'm sure none of us are offended

Edited: 19/03/2014 at 10:51
19/03/2014 at 10:52

Crikey a lot of posts flew by there. Almost as quickly as Lit does her reps while sneering at us mid life fellas. I'm not doing a marathon but the hat might fit, at least according to the other half Got my deposit down on the Porsche and saving up for hair transplants.

Bob - Feeling good today. Stomach is settling too.

19/03/2014 at 10:52

Well - you lot train sensibly and have realistic goals, so aren't the ones who'll be pissing me off in races. I will consider going with the pacer if it turns out to be Phil after all. Those red shorts are pretty irresistible.

19/03/2014 at 10:57

Skinny - Yep, I'm a self-confessed mid-life crisis runner. I thought it was cheaper and likely to be a touch better for me than the Porsche that I see Muddy is planning to double up on. 

Good to hear you've held up from last night's session and that the system is getting back to its normal self too, Muddy.

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