P + D training for VLM 2013

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13/02/2013 at 11:14
Just about to head out for 15 in heavy rain
HeOw great news about the feet. Lit don't forget we want a report on the race this weekend. NN great double yesterday, hope your 15 and 15wests 15 go ok. JF50 the total sum of your 5 long runs should be 100 or over. ( not P&D) but back to back 20 or 20+ run will be ok. Done 20,20,22,22 so far
13/02/2013 at 11:20

My race isn't till next weekend, NP, just been thinking ahead! But we should be getting some reports from people doing Wrexham. Enjoy the rainy 15 miles -- I didn't go out this morning because I'm planning to run part of mine with the club later, and it's only bloody started snowing again. I'm hoping it won't settle.

13/02/2013 at 11:29

JF 50  +1 for the 5 x 20.  It seems to be the unwritten rule. As you may have seen from earlier post, I dont worry about following verbatum - In my view there is no way one schedule can be the absolute training schedule for all people of different natural abilities, height, weight, sex, fitness, injury proneness, nutrition, location  etc etc. Hence it being a one hat fits all generic schedule - A good one none the less.

13/02/2013 at 12:04

JF50 - apologies - I cannot remember if this is your first marathon?  Great stats by the way!  Like the hills.  Re the 20 milers.  For my first marathon I was a bit nuts and did a 22, 24 AND a 26.2 in training.  Guess what... I burned out and Manchester marathon was a disaster pace wise - partly due to weather but partly due to the fact I ran my race when I did the 26.2 in training (did a well split 26.2 in training and a dire one on race day, even though they were 2.5 months apart!).  Novice error.  For my second race, I did 4 x 20/21 milers but ran them too fast.  Did an ok race at Chester but should have done better, again, left my race on the road.  For this one, I will run 5 x 20 (one will be a 22, probably 7 weeks out) and will run them a lot slower than I did for Chester. However, if I get ill or injured in between now and end of training, 3 will do me.  I have already done an 18 and a 20 - I know I could probably race next week and be fine! It is about finding what suits you.  Some people can run 1 x 20 miler (my friend did this and ran a 3:56 first marathon which is pretty good for 1 20 miler).  Some need a bit more endurance on their legs (me).  If you run the extra runs at the correct pace, you will gain more BUT if it is your first marathon, 3 would be fine.  I find the MLR runs are what help - I did lots of 15 milers too and I find these are good for gaining endurance but don't wear you out. 

13/02/2013 at 12:08

NoPain - are you sure you ain't a Transformer? 

Wasn't it Ron Hill OR was it Hal Higdon who advocates the 100 mile long run rule? 

Edited: 13/02/2013 at 12:09
13/02/2013 at 12:13

JF50, the other way to look at it is the ideal is to have five runs totalling 100 miles (although I thinkHeOw's advice on a minimum of three runs is a good tip, so three runs totalling 60miles would work).

I've added a mile and a bit to my 20 miler, as this bumps up the distance a bit and its also easier for me as one of my loops works out at 21 and a bit miles (mistakenly stopped the Garmin whilst running it so not sure of the total distance!).    

I've had to re-shuffle my plan, as I've ended up taking this week off due to a head cold and a few niggly pains.  I started a week early to give myself a buffer, so I'll still complete the schedule.  However it does mean my HM race is now on the same day as a scheduled 20m run.  Due to this, I'm swapping two weeks around so that I still do the 20 miler as well as the HM - as I still think the 20 milers are the main part of any marathon plan.

I booked my train tickets today - so its starting to feel very close to race day!

13/02/2013 at 12:15

To me, it is the training pace which is the biggest factor and something I have never got quite right - hopefully I have learned now the right way to train for the distance.  A lot of people I find also aren't very realistic over what they can truly handle over 26 miles.  If you finish your 20 milers wasted and have NOTHING left - there is no way you can carry that same pace on for another 10k on the day.  I am hoping the fact I felt pretty fresh after my 20 miles with 10 at race pace last week is a good sign and I still have weeks left before I taper.  It is such a personal thing this marathon training - what works for me, won't work for my friend.  Only advice I give people now is train slower than you think you should and save yourself for those tempos and speed workouts. You are then gaining the best from the aerobic runs and the best from the anaerobic workouts.  No point killing yourself on long run so you are too tired to do the LT session or the intervals.  

13/02/2013 at 12:31

Thanks for your thoughts NP, Men, HeOw and Stutyr.  As I said I was tempted to tinker to take it to 5 x 20, it will only add two more and I will just up the 17 milers in the schedule, it means I have 2 on consecutive weekends twice. As you say make sure the pace is good and it shouldn't be a problem.  

HeOw it will be my 3rd marathon, 3.50 first time off I think 3x20s, 3.33 second time off 5x20s. The last was in 2008.  I know I have slowed down a bit since then from my HM times, though I also probably haven't trained as hard since, but looking for sub 3.45, though I haven't quite made my mind up on MP yet, will wait till I've run a couple more long MPs.

13/02/2013 at 12:37

Are you doing VLM JF50?  You are looking for similar time to me then. 

13/02/2013 at 12:40

HeOw yes VLM

13/02/2013 at 12:50

JF50 - I did 20s on consecutive weekends, It was one of a number of things that I overdid which has left me a bit jaded. I would avoid them consecutively if at all possible but nice and slow with the last 3-5 at close to recovery pace on the second weekend if unavoidable.

How many on here are VLM virgins? This will be my second.

13/02/2013 at 12:52

Me! VLM virgin, that is, as it's my first marathon anywhere.

13/02/2013 at 13:42

Shame you weren't doing Manchester JF - we would have been running similar pace. Apologies for getting mixed up but there are so many of us - who is doing VLM as a warm up for Edinburgh? 

13/02/2013 at 13:47

Think we need this back:

Feb 17 - Mennania - Wrexham half - Sub 1:24
Feb 24 - Literatin - Tunbridge Wells half - Sub 1.29 but it's meant to be hilly...
Mar 24 - 15West - Wilmslow half - Sub 1:27 (not sure whether to race or practice MP)
April 14 - Tenjiso, jr2408 - Brighton - Sub 4.00 
April 21 - Keir - VLM - Sub 2.50 
April 21 - 15West, No Pain -VLM - Sub 2.55 
April 21 - Mennania, Mark 1981, Al runs, Surrey Runner, Chris J77 - VLM-Sub 3.00 
April 21 - Stutyr, Literatin - VLM - Sub 3:15 
April 21 - chick - Hamburg mara - Sub 3:25 
April 21 - ZiggyThe Spider - VLM - Sub 3:30 (May 26 - Edinburgh - Sub 3:15)
April 21 - Night Nurse - VLM - Sub 3.40
April 21 - JF50 - VLM - Sub 3.45
April 21 - Go Caz VLM Sub 3.50 
April 21 - Fiona J - VLM - Sub 4:00 
April 21 - Pottermiss - VLM - Sub 4.10 (well why not!)
April 28 - Agent Ginger - Manchester Mara - Sub 03:57:06
April 28 - Craig - Sub 3
April 28 - HeOw - Sub 3:45

13/02/2013 at 14:04

Adding my half to this:

Feb 17 - Mennania - Wrexham half - Sub 1:24
Feb 24 - Literatin - Tunbridge Wells half - Sub 1.29 but it's meant to be hilly...

Mar 3 - Al Runs - Silverstone half - Sub 1:25

Mar 24 - 15West - Wilmslow half - Sub 1:27 (not sure whether to race or practice MP)

April 14 - Tenjiso, jr2408 - Brighton - Sub 4.00 
April 21 - Keir - VLM - Sub 2.50 
April 21 - 15West, No Pain -VLM - Sub 2.55 
April 21 - Mennania, Mark 1981, Al runs, Surrey Runner, Chris J77 - VLM-Sub 3.00 
April 21 - Stutyr, Literatin - VLM - Sub 3:15 
April 21 - chick - Hamburg mara - Sub 3:25 
April 21 - ZiggyThe Spider - VLM - Sub 3:30 (May 26 - Edinburgh - Sub 3:15)
April 21 - Night Nurse - VLM - Sub 3.40
April 21 - JF50 - VLM - Sub 3.45
April 21 - Go Caz VLM Sub 3.50 
April 21 - Fiona J - VLM - Sub 4:00 
April 21 - Pottermiss - VLM - Sub 4.10 (well why not!)
April 28 - Agent Ginger - Manchester Mara - Sub 03:57:06
April 28 - Craig - Sub 3
April 28 - HeOw - Sub 3:45

13/02/2013 at 14:14

I'm a VLM virgin too.

Just back from a cold and wet 15mi - 2nd half was definately faster than first half as I speeded up a bit as just wanted it to end. Which ever direction I ran in I seemed to have snow/sleet blowing in my face making it quite hard to see. COME ON SPRING!

13/02/2013 at 14:57

Not looking forward to my 14 miles tonight ........its still snowing. This is when I wished I had time this morning, but no way I could run 14 miles and still be on the train at 7:55 (unless I got up at 4 ...)

13/02/2013 at 15:15

yuk yuk yuk !! really soggy tights jacket hat gloves EVERYTHING drenched the light rain was heavy by the time I got out for my 15 windy too, and I really did not feel like it I felt really tired this morning..anyway a miserable wet windy hilly ploddy type run  in 2.24..hr 72 %

I went after my pilates class, which wasn't as easy as I thought, I have terrible core and balance !! and when you are doing half the exercises on one leg with weights and trying not to topple over its twice as hard, the girl that took it , who I have never seen in my life knew me as the woman she sees out running in all winds and weather !! she look pretty amazing for someone that as 4 kids so I guess all the classes she takes must keep her in fantastic shape so I will go back for more 

And yes I always follw the at least 100 iles for the long runs added up..

Heow you and only you could do 26.2 in training 

Strange though non running friends ask all the time why I dont practice that distance !!

I cant be bothered to answer half the time as they see to think that London is the only marathon in the world anyway..I did Snowdonia marathon a few years ago and was asked."is it as far as the London one ?"

Edited: 13/02/2013 at 15:19
13/02/2013 at 15:16

Hope the snow settles, Fiona.

HeOw: glad it's only a cyst. So my general attitude towards foot niggles was just confirmed ... they usually go away on their own (joint and tendon stuff excluded of course)

Mennania, NN and others: completely agree - the training plan can only ever be a guideline. Life gets in the way, that's just the way things are. As long as some of the key sessions are done that's fine by me.

shit, HeOw - you ran 26.2 in in training???!!! Fcking hell ...

JF50: there's probably no need to tweak the long runs but I'm another one following the 100 mile rule avidly. Each time I did, I ran a PB. Never change a winning team ... My 20-22 milers will be run 10, 8, 7, 5 and 4 weeks out. And I always run them to HR not going over 70% of max. i. e. real slooooow. I found that by running slow they wouldn't leave me knackered so I was fresh enough to do my usual Sunday activities with family & friends pretty much forgetting I'd run for 3+ hours in the morning.

Did my LT run during my lunch hour today, meaning I couldn't do the scheduled 10 miles (I wish I could have been Chris, just for today at lunchtime ).
Instead I did 8 with 5 @ tempo (7:19). Previous times I did this were quicker but I ran in a rather tatty pair of old Fastwitches -- my emergency shoes at work as I tend to forget my proper running shoes when I leave the hosue in the morning. Felt fine cardiowise, just the legs were refusing to turn faster . Anyway, I guess I should be pleased compared to how I felt at the weekend.

13/02/2013 at 15:23
15West wrote (see)

I'm a VLM virgin too.

Just back from a cold and wet 15mi - 2nd half was definately faster than first half as I speeded up a bit as just wanted it to end. Which ever direction I ran in I seemed to have snow/sleet blowing in my face making it quite hard to see. COME ON SPRING!

Fiona J wrote (see)

Not looking forward to my 14 miles tonight ........its still snowing. This is when I wished I had time this morning, but no way I could run 14 miles and still be on the train at 7:55 (unless I got up at 4 ...)

Night Nurse wrote (see)

yuk yuk yuk !! really soggy tights jacket hat gloves EVERYTHING drenched the light rain was heavy by the time I got out for my 15 windy too, and I really did not feel like it I felt really tired this morning..anyway a miserable wet windy hilly ploddy type run  in 2.24..hr 72 %

 

 

I know getting up at 5am is fairly mad, but so glad I have got my 14mile MLR out of the way this morning, cold but dry.

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