P + D training for VLM 2013

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10/11/2012 at 13:47
Chickadee - thanks for the mail. I'm very impressed by the spreadsheet, and a copy of that will be on my fridge very soon

I've just done a very relaxed 6 miles with the dog. Average heart rate of 125bpm, which is the lowest I've seen for quite a while.
10/11/2012 at 15:05

Teknik thanks for that.

That formula looks pretty well spot on for me then, I last followed P&D 4 years ago , concentrating more on knocking out the high miles which I LOVE and almost ignoring marathon paced runs and used my mid week club runs as tempo runs which  sometimes allowing for the usual stops and starts for re grouping were really probably not fast enough  and after a 1.39 half in the march at Reading which is a nice course
I did a very comfortable 3.40 marathon in London,with 4 min neg split  so think I took it took easy but I loved it and felt so strong over the last 10k . 

But !! my 10k time around then was only 47 mins which according to that formula gives me nearer 4 hours but I admit I am lazy when it comes to speed work  and pain  and would rather run nice 15 miler anyday than race a 5k which I have never ever done so no idea of my 5k time ..

 My times over half marathon and 10k are pretty well much th same now, without any specific training I have been using the HRM over the last few months and have seen my HR for 70% pace runs drop from over 10 min miling to just over 9s I really really would love to get 3.3**  in London so I am determined to do the pacier stuff this time and using the HRM I am sure will help. my 10k times say NO chance but I do seem to get better the further I run

keir .. so you are saying to run I the marathon paced runs based on recent half marathon times ? and ignore the HR (as long as its not stupidly high of course ) ?

I shall keep reading and following the thread I cant really give any advice or debate but really enjoy reading all the ideas...and am learning alot I just now have to put it to practice.

Sorry for long post  off for 9 miles now before getting ready to go to back to work 


Edited: 10/11/2012 at 15:23
10/11/2012 at 15:55

Hi Ziggy and welcome

kease: please PM me your e-mail address so I can send the doc.

will catch up properly tomorrow


10/11/2012 at 19:32

I would like to join in too! I think I am the slowest here,  I have done 3 marathons previously and have a PB of 4.29. I would like to get closer to 4 hours 

I have the book and will be starting training on 17th Dec for VLM, I have read most of the thread so far and will catch up properly tomorrow with the rest.

Chickadee - I will send a PM for the spreadheet thingy too if that's ok.


10/11/2012 at 19:37

Credit for the P&D Spreadsheet goes to SteveC who used to post on the sub 3:15 thread. 

10/11/2012 at 20:02

I'm having problems with the spreadsheet. When i enter a number in the PMP box it doesn't update in the Main tab. And the number ( eg 9 ) shows as nil .... 00:00. If i format this to 2 dp the paces still don't update in the Main tab ? Is it just me ?

10/11/2012 at 20:08

This question goes out to those who use HR training.

When you do strides, what %max do you get. Still trying to get my head round strides  I've read up on it and the answer seems to be " relaxed sprints ".

So is this more intense than 5k pace ? And why not just sprint ?

10/11/2012 at 20:40

Mace, strides were best explained to me by an ex-cyclist (similar to myself). In cycling you do the odd session where you try to spin your lowest gear almost as fast as you can for 10 - 20sec. You are not trying to train your heart or lungs - these sessions ar't about cardio fitness. Instead you are trying to teach your body to pedal efficiently. The best way is to do this fast.

But, you don't want to be absolutely flat out as at that point you will be bouncing around in the saddle, gritting your teeth and tightening your arms, shoulders etc. You want to accelerate into the exercise rather than sprint from the gun. Instead you want to be at 95-97% flat out - so you are totally relaxed bodywise, focused on form yet spinning those legs. Repeated 8 - 10 times, once per week helps to create stong neuro-musclar pathways which improve your form.

I think strides are exactly the same type of exercise.

10/11/2012 at 22:06
Mace, the cell where you input PMP should be in a time format e.g hh:mms.
I had to reformat the time / pace based cells. I don't have Exel infront of me to check the format I used
11/11/2012 at 04:40

Welcome ziggy & pottermiss

Morning everyone, great 13miles this am here in SG.

11/11/2012 at 06:42

Nearly finished my shift  Kease posting @4.40 ??then I realised you are in


Did a nice 9 miler all @70% before work last night all well under 9s, very flat and cool...suits me

On the subject of strides, I last time I followed the schedule I wasnt really sure where to fit them into the run..what I ended up doing was 100m at the beginning of every  mile, is that the right way or should they be done closer together than that over a couple the middle miles ? I understood them to be about checking form and running strong and controlled I love those sessions

Edited: 11/11/2012 at 06:42
11/11/2012 at 12:03
Hello Pottermiss!

13 miles this morning in 1.43. Averaged 7.57 min miles which seems about my steady pace to run at.

Finished the last few miles a bit quicker with the last mile at about marathon pace.
Miles splits 8.15, 8.04, 8.23, 8.12, 8.19, 8.15, 8.18, 7.53, 7.54, 7.52, 7.43, 7.26, 6.42.

Think I prefer running in the winter!
11/11/2012 at 13:11

pottermiss & kease: you both got mail

nice progressive running mark1981

bit of a hectic day for me - will catch up properly over the next few days. Managed 6 miles slooooow with hubby earlier which brings me to 50 miles this week. Happy

11/11/2012 at 14:22
Afternoon all,

I did a very enjoyable, slow, hilly off-road 14.25 miles today, all round (and up and down) Box Hill in Surrey. Average heart rate was 136 bpm (62% WHR, 70%max), and I managed to keep running for all of the 1,800ft of ascent

11/11/2012 at 14:34

21km done at 78% MHR. Felt a lot easier than usual - I think it must be the recent cross country events I've done. Someone at my club recommended that I do the VO2 sessions on the basis that I need to get my body used to running at a faster pace, so perhaps I will try to do some after all.

11/11/2012 at 15:28

Sorry in advance for the long rambling post............

I've not been running long so I'm enjoying the fact PB's are easy to achieve  just now. However it does mean that I've no idea of how quick I should be thinking of trying to do London in.

I've ran one marathon. It was Edinburgh in May this year and I ran it in a conservative 3hr 59min. (I hadn't really trained for it, well not much running at least)

Since then I've mostly been running Parkruns and have reduced my PB from 25min to 19min 23sec.

During this period I've also ran the Great Scottish Run in 1hr 39min and a local 10k in 41min 02sec.

Then this morning I went for a long run that turned into a bit of tempo run and I set a new PB for a half. It was 1hr 38min (55min for the 1st half and then 43 for the 2nd) with an overall avg HR of 139.

I've used the McMillan Pace Calculator but I'm wary of basing my marathon training on a 5k time especially since I don't really have many miles of training under my belt. (McMillan suggests a marathon time of 3hr 09min based on my 5k but to be honest I find that a bit scary)

Should I just find a half marathon, see how quick I can do it, and then pace my training on that time? Or should I be basing my training on heart rate?

Again apologies for the rambling nature of this post....my copy of P&D hasn't even arrived yet so prepare yourselves for even more tedious questions when it does.

Edited: 11/11/2012 at 15:29
11/11/2012 at 15:48

hello everyone,

i am new to this thread and this will be my first marathon, (going through a charity close to me) i need some advice as to whats the best schedule to get me upto the distance without any injuries ive done a few halfs at around 2.15, but have not really done any training, i am only runnning 4-5 miles a few times a week, i am injury free right now apart from recovering from a chest infection.

Any tips or advice would b gladly appreciated

11/11/2012 at 19:52

Sarnie - If your target is to complete - rather than to risk racing / injury and not starting, then I would recommend a programme which is light on higher intensity work.   The best programme is the one whih you are going to stick to and get you to the start line injury free. No point starting out on the 55m P&D plan if you are never going to stick to that mileage and if you are likely to pick up and injury (from enxperience of the mileage / intensity). 

The runners world marathon plans are as good a place as any to start. If in doubt, drop the intensity or rest rather than pushing it.

11/11/2012 at 19:56

Ziggie - base your target marathoin pace on what McMillian predicts based upon your 1.38HM from today. As you get fitter / get more PBs - continue to check McMillian and increase your pace accordingly. As you get closer to the actual day you will have a better guess on how your training has gone and your possible time. If you are really wanting to know, I reckon you should be aiming for between 3.15 and 3.30. 

11/11/2012 at 19:58

NightNurse - don't get hung up on strides. Do them as the mood takes you. There are so many prescriptive paces / HRs etc to worry about in general in training, how often to stride isn't an issue. Just run between occassional lamp-posts or something.  

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