P + D training for VLM 2013

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07/03/2013 at 08:32

Morning all - hope all are feeling ok out there. Any good news on the foot this morning HeOw?

I have a double day today, 6 this morning, 4 later. Got some strides in there top which am not really looking forward to....

I see that winter is back - going to get cold this weekend too.

07/03/2013 at 09:35

Go Caz - sorry you are disappointed, a race isn't always an indicator of fitness, lots of factors can mean you don't PB (like you say, you aren't feeling yourself), so don't feel down about it, look at it like you did a brilliant run under the weather, so imagine what you could do running at 100%.  The time of year hard to race I find, so many bugs about, you never know if you aren't about to come down with an illness.  

15W - thanks for asking, the tendon is still creaking a bit so will ring Pod in a mo and see if he thinks I should run, all the inflammation has gone and I could definitely do a recovery run but will see what his advice is.  I think testing it tonight on a 4 miler recovery might be an idea as I could have this creaky feeling for a while.  At least then I know tomorrow, if it is worse that I need to totally rest until it is gone.  Hmm.  Bastard running, it is a mug's game...     It tears you apart when you can't do it!  Knackered though, just shows me, running isn't the only thing that tires me out!

07/03/2013 at 09:56

GoCaz - I agree with HeOw, and so does P&D.  Page 29 (2nd Ed.) warns against misinterpreting the result of tune-up racing during training.  As they say: "It's important to put the result in the context of the situation."

Good luck with the foot HeOw.

15w - you're full of the joys of spring 

07/03/2013 at 10:37

Rang Podiatrist - he said the creaking will still be the tendon slightly inflammed (the acupunture will have helped relieve pressure from tendon) but that total rest won't do it any good either - so he advised me to do a slow run and reassess it.  Fingers crossed, it goes ok.  Will do 5-6 miles recovery, the foot doesn't seem to notice much under that so will be wasting my time otherwise.  Won't do any strides etc.  

07/03/2013 at 11:45

Go Caz, don't worry about the race - I was also over a minute off my PB on the weekend and so was NN.  It is slightly discouraging seeing other people setting PBs on the P&D training, but its just a stepping stone to the main event and doesn't matter in the wider plan (when you think about it 1 min over 13 miles is very little difference)

HeOw, good luck on your run - its got to be good when the pod is encouraging you to run   

07/03/2013 at 11:46

Sensible behaviour HeOw, in fact very well behaved

So the subject of what to do about the warm up races is probably with most of us this week.  I am working Saturday so can't get to a Parkrun for 5k of it so have decided I will probably run a 10 miler with a 10k tempo in there, sort of my own race.  Has the advantage of I know I will win, though I could take on my Garmin and see how good that is.

If there is an equivalent thread running on the US site they are all probably picking the best 15k race to go to on Saturday

07/03/2013 at 11:56

Morning everybody, hope everybody is feeling ok.  After my not so enjoyable 16 yesterday with heavy legs, the 5 mile recovery was very welcoming today, feel a lot fresher in the legs now ready for tomorrows tempo.

HeOw hope you foot sorts itself out quickly.

Just a question on medioum long runs, me myself start out around 7:50-8:00 min/mile pace and gradually increase it to around 7:35-7:40 and finiah around 7:20 which is 10% slower than my marathon pace 6:40.  Am I doing it correct as I have noticed a few running them faster?  

07/03/2013 at 11:58

Craig - think that is spot on. I tend to run my MLR's as fast as I feel like on the day...which probably isn't the best idea.

07/03/2013 at 12:00

Looks about right Craig.  Start out at MP+20%, then gradually increase pace and run the final five miles or thereabouts at MP+10%.

07/03/2013 at 12:01

Craig P&D say to run the first 5 miles at about 20% slower and the rest of the run at 10% slower. I think most people throw in a couple of MP miles in as well at the end, though the schedule doesn't ask for this.  Pretty much what I have done, those slower miles are important physiologically to get you burning a bit of fat and not just grabbing glycogen.

07/03/2013 at 12:09
JF50 wrote (see)

Craig P&D say to run the first 5 miles at about 20% slower and the rest of the run at 10% slower. 

JF50 - That's not what it says in 2nd Ed.  -  See p16 2nd paragraph.

Edited: 07/03/2013 at 12:11
07/03/2013 at 12:13

Blimey Ten are you reading it now, that's the second page/para quote from you today!

07/03/2013 at 12:21

I wear it next to my heart.

07/03/2013 at 12:28

One thing I've found useful is the following link:


It summarises the 55 to 70 plan on one page, and also gives the summary description of each run type.  For the Medium run, it says follow the guidleines of the long run.  The long run is gradually accelarate to MP + 20% after five miles, accelerating to MP+10% for the last five miles.

Although, I just run it a bit faster than an Aerobic run, and then aim for a negative split for the second half of the run.

JF50, I had the same thoughts on the warm-up race, there's no Parkrun close to me so I was going to do 10 mile run with a 10k "race" effort in the middle as well. 

07/03/2013 at 14:13

Hello everybody,

I only have the first edition so can't look up the page in the 2nd edition that Ten just quoted. But for my MLRs I tend to pick whatever pace I feel like between 10% and 20%, by contrast with the long runs which I tend to do progressively as per instructions. That's partly because I tend to do MLRs at least partly with my club, though, and it's hard to insist they all stick to the pace I say! I do sometimes stick some marathon paced miles in there too, for similar reasons.

For the warm-up race I was planning to just do it as a tempo, though perhaps not 10k's worth like JF50. I was thinking 1 mile warm-up, 5 miles at about 6:35-6:45 pace and then 1 mile cool down.

My run today is 5.5 miles recovery with strides to get to trapeze class, then another 5.5 miles home. It was that or go running at 6am and I'm not a morning person. I'd been taking a break from trapeze to concentrate on the running, but was kind of missing it, so this is my compromise to fit everything in. Hope I haven't forgotten how to hang by my ankles!

HeOw, hope the run goes well later. And Caz, I think 1 minute off PB is still impressive running and anyway lots of the recent HM PBs came from people ditching a week of the plan to taper.

07/03/2013 at 14:57

I've checked from cover to cover, and I can find no reference to trapeze anywhere!  

I guess it must be in the first edition only. 

07/03/2013 at 15:04

It's the bit where it says about cross-training and core work.

07/03/2013 at 15:17

Hmmmm I type a whole post and it seems to have vanished.

Well done on all the running. I've mixed up this week to allow for holiday travel on Sunday  and to do the 22 miler I missed last week.  Legs a bit tired now. Day off tomorrow and then 22 miles Saturday.

07/03/2013 at 16:04
Thanks for the replies, great help
07/03/2013 at 19:49

Well done  on the running peeps, HeOw hope the foot is ok and today I did a 6 mle recovery run and 5 mile progresive tempo run to 6:00 pace total 5 miles in 33 mins. Tomorrow is an easy recovery day with a swim and easy run up into the 80's again this week.

CAZ if you ran 1 min off a PB well done but don't let it effect you It means your there or there abouts and it was only your B race, give it your all in April

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