P + D training for VLM 2013

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03/12/2012 at 16:24

Stutyr I normally plan events to coincide with the MP finish long runs, but that means 'holding back' to MP rather than racing them (which is easier if you've already run 6 miles or so before hand).

If I plan to 'race' a HM, I normally add a week to the plan to taper in / recover.

03/12/2012 at 17:48

Whatever you do - do not race the 20 Miler or do at MP if its near your marathon... MP towards the end is fine as per teknik comments..... but you need to save your energies for the maion event!!  In effect its a  LSR training run with "friends" - with some faster running towards the end of required

03/12/2012 at 18:28

A bit of reading back for me i have used a mixture of P&D and my own training for the last 3 or so years and normally top out at 90+ miles a week. I know a few peeps on here and a lot that I don't, at the building stage I wouldn't panic if your unable to hit certain paces you will find that the speed will come more in the second half.

Stutyr as far as doing a half marathon 7 weeks out thats about perfect mine comes with 5 weeks to go but I never taper for it use it as a speed session and add a mile warm up and a couple after and it will equal a long run.

03/12/2012 at 19:14
I'm planning to incorporate quite a few races in my pre-marathon training, with the HMs and a 20miler being chances to do big blocks of MP, and the 10ks being ran hard as replacements for either a tempo or a VO2 max session.

My marathon is MK, so 2 weeks after VLM, and I've entered races as follows

Jan 1st - Knacker Cracker (hilly 10-12k)
Jan 6th - Tadworth 10 (hilly 10m)
3rd Feb - Chichester 10k (fast, aim to race this)
Mid Feb - Dorney HM (planning to make this a bit longer with 4-5 miles before, and then aim to do at least 10 miles at MP)
3rd March - Spitfire 20 (depends how I feel, but hopefully 14m+ @ MP)
24 March - Eastleigh 10k (flat, will race this all out)

None of these are target races, but are all just stepping stones along the way - which for me means a chance to see how my fitness is progressing and to do some training on the psychological side.

I'm still hoping to find a decent local 10k (or a 10miler) in early-mid April, so any suggestions welcomed....
03/12/2012 at 19:38

I only have 2 races planned so far a 10 miler mid Feb and half on march 3rd, too much tapering and recovering otherwise, unless you can be really self disciplined and NOT race them.

03/12/2012 at 20:05

Half for me mid feb and will race it as a barometer to help set/confirm my MP. The plan suggests either 10 or 12 at MP that weekend( depending which one you are following). Mini taper and mini recovery will cost me a few quality sessions but hopefully no more. The certainty phsycologically should outweigh the potential negatives. Well, thats the plan anyway.

04/12/2012 at 12:11

Thanks for the advice, I like the idea of swapping one of the marathon pace runs for the HM but not sure I could restrain myself from racing it.  I'll see how it goes, I'm planning to start the schedule a week early to give me some buffer for illness/injury, so that means I start next week!?!

That would put the HM at the end of a recovery week which has a medium-long 14m run on that date.  So that week would be a mini-taper & a race .  As a back-up, the previous week is a MP run so I could swap those weeks.


04/12/2012 at 19:32

Hi everyone. I'm a bit of a latecomer on here but I just got the P&D book from Amazon on the strength of this thread and it seems really interesting, so thanks! I was looking for a good schedule for my fifth marathon ( VLM 2013) and think I will follow the 18-week 55-mile plan. I'm hoping for a marathon time of about 3:45-50 - not fast by P&D standards I know, but I do have a Good for Age place. Does anyone have any tips/formula on how to calculate MP - 10% or 20%? Sorry if that's really stupid or has already been covered. I have read most of the posts but it's a lot to catch up on!

04/12/2012 at 21:26

Hi Caz

I assume you mean MP +10% and MP +20% for the long slow runs - 3h45 is 8'35" pace (515 secs per mile). So 515 x 110% = 566 secs (9'26" pace) and 515 x 120% = 618 secs (10'18" pace)


Benched for 2 weeks at least here...tendonitis on VMO/patella...back to the swimming pool, I guess

04/12/2012 at 21:59
I don't have the book with me at the moment but I'm pretty sure that the 55-70 schedule has you up to 20 miles by about January.

My plan is to extend the long runs a touch because I think they look a bit light, so ill be doing 20ish mile runs 3 weeks out of every 4 till taper time.

If I stick to this ill have more than enough long runs in the bag so ill be able to drop a couple for races.

I'm doing the York brass monkey half in January and I want to find another in early March.
06/12/2012 at 08:45

I'm 90% certain I'm not going to do a Spring marathon now. It's just too cold and miserable outside: the idea of running 24km on the way home from work midweek when it's pitch black and minus 1 is not terribly pleasant! The other difficulty is that it could easily be 20-25 degrees in April which isn't ideal if you've done all your training in Arctic conditions. Much more pleasant to train for an Autumn marathon...

Convince me I'm wrong and need to "man up"?

06/12/2012 at 08:48
Man up
06/12/2012 at 08:55


[NP continues to wear hat and gloves in April, to get used to running hot...advice I will follow this year.]

06/12/2012 at 08:57

Any advice on running gloves? At the moment I wear a thin pair of Nikes as inners, a thicker pair of Nikes on top, then cotton gloves on top of that... and my hands are still cold!

Edited: 06/12/2012 at 08:57
06/12/2012 at 09:07
Mxb You need to man up!

I have this quote stored on my phone and I use it as inspiration when I need motivation.

"Athletes: Don't take the sport you play for granted. Every time you play, you better be dang thankful that you get to do something you love. Don't show up to practice complaining about not wanting to be there; you're there hopefully because you love it. Work hard every moment. If you're not working hard, you don't deserve to play. Play every practice or game like it's your last because it very well could be. When you finally reach the day that you can't play, and you can only watch, then you will know how much you love something that you once took for granted."
06/12/2012 at 09:17

mxb seriously man up !! I know what you mean though, although I actually LOVE running in freezing weather (honestly) I don't like it if it very wet/windy.Remember that winter 2 years ago when it started snowing in mid Nov and the temps didn't go above freezing for weeks ? well I plodded on, bought some yax trax for the trainers and got on with it...BUT VLM 2011 was unfortunately a gloriously sunny day  temps 23 or so by the time I got to 15 miles I hated every step of the way I really dont run well once it goes over about 18 /20 degs I over heat terribly, but its the chance you take I have done London in lovely light rain and got a PB 

As for gloves I keep a box of hospital latex gloves at home to wear under my running gloves 

06/12/2012 at 09:18

mxb - sorry, have to agree with NP . 11M at 5.30am at - 2C and just the one pair of gloves  Mine are Karrimor ones i think which i got from Sports Direct ... if i'm feeling the cold anywhere it'll be in my hands but they work a treat.

Re entering races as part of long runs, how do you guys time those runs ? Do you try for a seamless transition into the race ?

Edited: 06/12/2012 at 09:18
06/12/2012 at 09:20

mark - great quote, i like that

06/12/2012 at 09:22

mark , all I need to do is be at work to appreciate what I can do and NEVER take it for granted , I work in neuro rehab where just walking to the toilet is an achievment for most of our patients, I have to slap myself if I am disapointed with a recent race  !!! so what if you dont get PB ? be glad you can do it at all 

Edited: 06/12/2012 at 09:24
06/12/2012 at 11:26
Exactly Night Nurse and the thing is most of us will end up like your patients.
I know how annoyed I get when I can't train which makes me realise how I take my health and fitness for granted sometimes.

I'm someone that quite likes training in the cold, the hardest bit is just getting out of the door!

I did a race in Austria this summer and the temperature hit 40c, that was tough!!
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