P + D training for VLM 2013

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20/03/2013 at 09:33

Al - you could compromise...you could do the race then run 20 the following day, or do your own tempo on the friday or saturday...say 4 or 5 miles at LT pace and then 22 on sunday...?

I have 14 miles today but might add a few miles as have a half on sunday instead of my 17mi LR.

20/03/2013 at 09:35

Al - agree about the overtaking. That's what I tend to do - find someone ahead to catch up with and then take over....then onto the next one. Of course some are doing the same to me!

At Chester though I did go take over a lot of people in the 2nd half of the race who had passed me in the 1st half.

20/03/2013 at 09:47

15W - are your trails flat or hilly and will your legs not be battered during the race when you hit the tarmac for 26.2?  Reason I am asking this is I think, to manage rest of the plan, most of my runs are going to have to be on trails but the Sandstone Trail is quite brutal in places and far too hard for me to do 3-4 hours on (rather than a 20 miler) and still be fresh for other runs.  

20/03/2013 at 09:53

My trails are mainly flat and are either on muddy or gravel paths - so actually pretty good for running on. The only problem I have sometimes is slippery mud and big puddles to jump over.

20/03/2013 at 09:59

Out at 5am for an 11 mile MLR this morning, it was light enough to turn the headtorch off after a couple of miles

Men that's a good description of strides, and how not to look when you do them.  I sometimes do my strides on a straight flat bit of road on an industrial estate, just repeats along 100 yards or so of it.  As I often run early in the morning there are few people to watch my old man impressions of somebody trying to run fast, apart from the occasional early worker at a couple of the factories.  One morning I am doing these repeats when an alarm goes off in one of the factores I am running past so I have visions now of the police turning up and arresting me for whatever they imagine I am doing, you can hide a lot of goods in the little zipped poskets of training gear after all!  Even worse getting tasered because I won't stop till the end of my effort 

Re running in the warm, or practicing for it, I guess the easy way is to wear more layers, realistically though it's not the same as 20degC of London sunshine on a fine April day

 

20/03/2013 at 10:10

Well done JF 50 - I was surprised too this morning that the 2nd half of my run was in daylight. When did that happen? I wear a million layers already (looking like the proverbial Michelin man) but I'm still cold


Men: PML ... that's the best description of strides I've ever seen

HeOw: yeah!! No foot pain - bring on them trails . I haven't done may strides either . It's too bliddy early in the morning to remember everything and more often than not I simply forget them.

Negative split is the way to go. Never managed it - I usually do a minute positive split in my marathons. Best performance was London 2010 with a 45 sec positive split. Pisses me off, it does. One day I will hopefully bag a negative one though.


13 mile MLR d&d. I found a 2 mile stretch of pavement with very little ice and ran that up and down, up and down . Almost as bad as dreadmill running that was. Made up by running 10 miles in the middle a bit faster (80% of max. HR if any HADDers are around). Av. pace for the whole run 8mm exactly; 7:53 was the faster bit.

20/03/2013 at 10:51

Dibaba has pulled out of London - that's a shame.

20/03/2013 at 10:58

did 5x600m (each in 2:28, which was pretty fast for me) yesterday, plus warmup/cooldown. Today my right quad is feeling pretty sore :-\

20/03/2013 at 11:07
15West wrote (see)

My trails are mainly flat and are either on muddy or gravel paths - so actually pretty good for running on. The only problem I have sometimes is slippery mud and big puddles to jump over.

I like to splash through the puddles like a child.

 

Re. positive/negative splitting, I sometimes have the impression that P&D is training us to negative split - I've got used to running my long runs with a massive negative split (albeit obviously slower than the real thing), as I do the first 9 miles or so at MP + 20%, the next 9 at =10% and the last couple at race pace. The other day when doing an 18-miler I planned to just run it at an even pace because of being careful with the tight calves and set off at about 8:20 pace which is somewhere in the 10-20% range. But I wasn't paying much attention to pacing because I thought I was just doing it steady, and ended up speeding up gradually throughout the second half just on autopilot.

My plan will be to aim for an even pace but one that allows for a slight fade if that happens, and then to let myself speed up after 20 miles if I'm feeling good.

20/03/2013 at 11:08

PS: great run AG, and now you get all the fun of the dreaded foam roller quad massage...

20/03/2013 at 11:10

foam roller ....  

AG: that's seriously shifting! Well done

20/03/2013 at 11:46

cheers Chick, Lit, I need to go buy a foam roller. I think the pints i had last night haven't helped with recovery either, but hey ho.

Al Runs, is the 10k @ 8am on Saturday that you are considering by any chance the one in Battersea park? I'm doing that one. I'm actually training for Manchester on 28th, not London, but shifted about a few runs to allow for personal commitments, which means i'm doing the Sri Chinmoy 10k in battersea on Saturday morning, then 17mi LSR on Sunday. My PB for a 10k RACE is something like an hour, from about 3 years ago. More recently I did a tempo run where my garmin says I covered 7miles at avg 8:08, so about 50:30 pace for a 10k. I felt like I had more in me, so I'm looking to go under 50mins for the first time. We'll see how I feel on Saturday morning i guess.

20/03/2013 at 11:50

AG, the pace of those intervals suggests that a sub 50-minute 10k will not be a problem at all...

20/03/2013 at 11:58

My 5x600m intervals were at 6:37min/mile pace, but I should point out that this is NOT my 5k pace. Although the P&D plan says to run the intervals at 5k pace, I run them as quickly as I can consistently maintain across all the reps, as I don't see a great deal of training benefit in running 600m reps at my 5k pace (which would be 7:50 min/miles based on a 5k training run in 24:21 from January).

 

20/03/2013 at 12:16

AG - Well you did 3k of them mid run in one of the heaviest parts of a relentless 18 week programme so they aint that far feom your 5K pace? I think they are more representative of your current form than 7.50 anyway. Sub 50 10k should be very manageable.

20/03/2013 at 12:28

AG, indeed it is the Sri Chinmoy 10k in Battersea Park, or as I affectionately call it 'The Arena of Pain' (because that's where I did all of my LT runs...) I think I will enter. See you there! Presumably you're of the red-haired persuasion?

Also AG, I agree, sub 50-minute should be achievable given your VO2max pace. The online predictors say I need to be able to get around in about 38.30 for sub3 marathon form so I'll make that my goal. My first time at 10k so it'll be a PB whatever.

20/03/2013 at 13:05
Mennania wrote (see)

AG - Well you did 3k of them mid run in one of the heaviest parts of a relentless 18 week programme so they aint that far feom your 5K pace? I think they are more representative of your current form than 7.50 anyway. Sub 50 10k should be very manageable.

Totally agree with this -- there is no way I'd be physically capable of running intervals that much faster than my 5k pace even if I was trying to go a bit faster.

20/03/2013 at 13:53

AG - I have a sub 50 10K (49:23) and I thought I was doing well with 7:20/mile pace for the 600 m intervals! Actually today one of them actually had a 6 at the beginning  although I'd had a rather long rest as I had to pop to the loo during the previous rest period.

Lousy nights sleep last night as I was on call and had to stay up to sort stuff out until after midnight as feel really tired now. I think tonight's MLR might be tough.

SR - with regards to warm weather training I was doing a considerable amount of that in the gym when we had all the snow (boring) and then tried a slightly more pleasant for which included sun and sand

I remember the first time I marathon trained I did my last long run in shorts and vest to check that they were going to be OK and I was blue by the time I got home.  On the day of the marathon it was the hottest day of the year.  It was tough.

20/03/2013 at 13:56

I forgot I had a question.

I have 17 miles LSR in the plan for Sunday and 20 next week, however, due to a shorter run last week and a missed LSR due to a cold a few weeks ago I was planning to do a 20 and 22 miler.  My question is, would it be better to do the 20 miler this week and 22 next or vice versa or does it not make the blindest bit of difference?  What do you think?

20/03/2013 at 13:58
JF50 wrote (see)

..Even worse getting tasered because I won't stop till the end of my effort 

 

On the upside, think how fast your strides will be whle being chased down by police dogs 

 

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