P + D training for VLM 2013

I am looking at the up to 55 mile plan, my normal weekly mileage is about 30 with a marathon PB of 3.33 so think it is the most suitable mileage plan for me.  I'll also be 59 when the VLM comes around so just feel there would be more of a risk of injury pushing my mileage up to the next level of plan in too short a period.  Next time though?

Till 17th December I am steadily upping weekly mileage and trying some of the sessions.

Hi I am going to follow the plan up to 70 miles .

I got my 10 mile ,half marathon, 20 mile and marathon pb in 2008 the year a last followed this plan.

I enjoyed finishing the marathon feeling very strong in 3.40 I realise now I was a little conservative with my goal which was GFA of 3.45... but it was amazing feeling I had gained such strength from the plan....so yes 17th dec...count me in...

JF50 I too am gradually upping the mileage till then did 45 last week

Hi folks can I join you too? I'm doing VLM

I've completed my autumn marathon in the slower than most on here 4:11:03 on a rather muddy multi-terrain course.  I had been wondering about the P&D plan and given that my mileage max was 52 for this one I think I might try the up to 55 miles plan - although I haven't seen a copy yet.  I just looked the link someone provided on the previous page and although the mileage is higher it is the sort of thing I'm after.  I tend to keep my mileage around 30-40 miles when not marathon training so this seems feasible. One of my problems with higher mileage is time - especially during the week when I have to run before work. At my pace I can really only manage 10 ish miles in the time I've got.

Will order a copy of the book from amazon as can't find it anywhere locally and after a week off will be increasing to a approx 40 miles for the next few weeks.

Welcome JF50, Night Nurse and Fiona. Good to have you all onboard! I'm so glad this thread is proving popular as I for one am sure I'll need encouragement when training starts for real on on the hallowed Dec 17th.

Night Nurse - good to hear your positive feelings about the 70m plan.

Fiona - excellent purchase, the book is great not just for the schedules but for the training advice. It really does a great job explaining why it's good to train at different intensities and giving you insight into how the different paces improve fitness and effiency. And 4:11 on a multi-terrain course sounds very impressive!

Question for all: do you think it will be beneficial to have a recovery week with little or no running just before the schedule kicks in?

Al I think thats a good idea we have a long 18 weeks to get through so it will be good to start on freshish legs.

I have a 10 mile race this coming sunday then I shall just concentrate on lots of easy miles till the plan starts

Fiona I agree with Al 4.11 for a muddy multi terrain course seems pretty good damn going to me 

This is just what i am looking for...i have just done my second marathon in dublin on monday and took 33 minutes off my previous time (Fort William in April) finishing in 3hrs 16 mins 00 sec. For my first marathon i did not follow any plan, for the dublin one i followed the Hal Higdon Advanced 2 program and stuck to it really well. Obviously going by the time i got the program really improved me as a runner, but i read recently that the P&D training is much better, so i am up for giving it a good go.

I ordered the book from Amazon...should arrive tomorrow...so after a short break i am going to look forward to following a new plan.

Al R yes I think it is a good idea to have a toned down easy week, no running is taking it bit too far down I expect for most people contemplating the plans, but I reckon take out the speed work and any really long runs and most of us will be fresh for December 17th. I have a 10 mile race planned for the end of the month but won't be racing after that till I get into the plan and that in itself is going to be good getting people's thoughts and methods of fitting some races within the plan.

The other topic I think is interesting to get views on is fitting this in during the darkest part of the year.  The plans are quite technical and I think will be a challenge making sure you are running to plan.

Is anyone doing the Silverstone HM on March 3rd? I've signed up as it seems well-timed. P&D don't seem keen on races that long so it will require some thought as how to fit it in.

Anyone else have other races booked in? I'm thinking one more parkrun before Christmas, with the hope of going under 18 minutes as a confidence boost for sub 3 marathon form.

I normally book races to fit the schedule's required Long run with X @ MP... HM's are good for this, with a jog before/ after to make up the mileage

Teknik - that's probably the best way to do it, but I find I don't have enough self control to run an HM at mara pace... Also I get a confidence boost from plugging my PBs into the Mcmillan pace calculator for predicting my marathon time...

Hi all,  I followed the P&D in 2011 and finally broke 3:30 after 8 attempts so can recommend it.  I followed the up to 55 mpw and extended a couple of the longer runs.   I found the LT sessions really hard at the beginning but by the end that pace was my MP. 

Fiona - well done on Sunday.  I was there too and it certainly wasn't a course to measure your marathon ability on but it was excellent for building mental and physical strength!   I used the TM as a marker in 2010 before starting with the P&D and knocked 10 minutes off my time.

Good luck all.

Al I too shall be doing a local half on that date, I did the last time and think there is plenty of time to recover, unlike when I raced a half 2 weeks before a marathon ( allowing the day a mile to recover theory )  not a good idea ..the last 8 miles were the worst of my life mind you I hadnt followed any kind of schedule either.

Anyone tried doing there quality runs on a treadmill with success ? ie marathon paced sections of long runs and tempo ? I was thinking of popping into the gym half way through the runs to do this ...no I dont care what I look like ..

JF50 I am quite lucky as my shifts ( the clues in the name) allow me plenty of time during the day to do my running....I work 3 nights on the trot so have 4 days off in which to get training done..I tend to leave the shorter stuff and recovery runs for between shifts although I do try to keep to the plan so sometimes have do get a 12-15 miler in between night shifts 

(waves at Minni)

Check out the treadmills prior to planning your LSRs oin them NN. Some gyms have a time restriction policy, some treadmills have an actual tme restriction which shuts them down after 1 hr! Impressive mental toughness if you can stick it out though.

I always find I get sucked into trying too hard if I have entered a race and cannot stick to M pace. 2 ways around this are to accept that you are going to race and taper before and after a bit for it (maybe take out a hard session the week befor eand 1 - 2 the week after). Also what worked well for me was to run 6m before a local HM at MP+60sec, then 4m@MP+45sec, 4m@MP+30sec, 4m@MP+15sec, 1m flat out, 1m warm down. It helped to hold me back, taught me the feel of pace and was a really enjoyable work out, especially coming flying past people over that final mile!

Keir my plan was to do some miles out doors then pop into the gym do some mara pace or tempo then get back outside for the rest of the run ...I dont think I could do a whole LSR on a treddy, I like your plan for the local half race...if you can stick to the paces without getting carried away..I get a little competitive....and then there are the results that EVEYONE sees...still I guess I could always say I had a cold or a few glasses of wine the night before...everyone has used those excuses for a bad run at some time havent they

NN Lol...one way to rein yourself in is to find a clubmate who wants to hit a particular time target, where that pace is your MP - the satisfaction of pacing them round outweighs the "embarrassment" of posting a slow time...

...then again, once we're aerobic machines, there won't be much difference betwen HM and M pace anyway....

hi all

I'm in for this....

Had a bad run of injuries recently but hope to be in a good position to start the 55 program on the 17th.

Looks like we're in for a particularly cold and snowy winter so there might be quite a bit of boring treadmill work.

Bring it on!!! Good luck all

Like YoungPup, I too am aiming for Milton Keynes, which will be my first marathon. Planning to start the 18 week up to 55 schedule on Jan 1st. The dates fit too neatly not to do it!

This may all be a bit ambitious for me - I'm currently trying to build from 30 mpw (for my recent HM campaign, PB at 92:11) to 40 mpw before the end of the year, and trying out some of the runs from P&D's "endurance" phase. Let's see how it goes ...

Morning!

Minni - I had totally forgotten you were running too.  I never expected it to be a PB as I knew what the course was like and I was relieved it wasn't also raining just to cap things off. However, I was only 1:50 slower than my PB at VLM which I think in reality means that I did sustain a better pace over a tougher course so I am pleased and as you say the mental toughness aspects are always useful.

I haven't planned any races yet for next year but must start thinking about it. I don't usually race that often so have always "raced" but maybe this year I'll do some at MP - I quite fancy the idea of finishing a HM and still feeling quite fresh instead of exhausted.

In all honesty I had decided not to do a marathon in the spring unless I got into VLM and I got another ballot place (totally unexpected) as I got one for this year as well. Had just planned on doing more 10K and HM and working on speed. However no intention of turning down the place so that was that.

I assume from what you are all saying the plans are 18 weeks starting 17th Dec (I haven't seen the plan yet). That will be fine as already up to about 40 mpw so will just continue in a similar manner - although this week is 0  well so far, probably by the weekend it will be 8 or so miles.

Hi everyone   and a wave to NN & Minni

P&D plans are great. I owe 2 huge PBs to them!!

I do stick to their 12 week 55-70 mile schedule (18 weeks is too long imho but I usually maintain a base of 50 mpw anyway). So I will probably keep to HADD type running between now and Jan. Like Minni said, the number of 20+ milers could be higher. I prefer having 5 or 6 of them. And that thing about Saturday tune-up races doesn't really work well in Europe...  but you can always do a time trial or move the long run and pick a Sunday race. 

NN: treadmill running . I admire people that can churn out seemingly endless sessions on the mill. Not for me. I'd die of boredom