P + D training for VLM 2013

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13/12/2012 at 09:47

I have the old edition and I dont have a tempo run till week 3, starting the plan with a tempo seems a bit harsh, my first session is strides !! nice 

13/12/2012 at 09:53
Keir wrote (see)

Means early mornings / late nights or work flexbility though!

Indeed!  I think the mental barrier makes it seem harder than it is.  Now I've made up my mind to go for it, I'll find time.

I've got my first case of running DOMS that I've had in ages!  Bit scarey that it's after only my first P&D run .  Hehe, roll on today's nine mile GA 

13/12/2012 at 09:57

Night Nurse - with the strides, does it mean that you accelerate to the fastest pace you can run?  If so, I'll have to modify because I've injured myself doing that.

13/12/2012 at 10:48

Ten, no its not a sprint as such just a controlled acceleration concentrating on form, striding keeping arms shoulders and upper body under control (thats what I do anyway )

See that tempo on the first day is silly !! I cant understand it .hope you recover soon from the DOMS.

Got a touch of that myself over did the squats and lunges on Tues, 


13/12/2012 at 11:20

Completed the 9m Aerobic session this morning.  Annoyingly, I've messed up setting the zones on my Garmin, so ran it too fast as it was only 30 secs per mile slower than my target marathon pace.  I was pretty sure it was too fast, but couldn't double-check the book until I got home!

I agree with Keir about the mid-week longer runs, this is only my second marathon but it was something I identified after my first that I needed to get more miles in during mid-week in addition to the long runs on the weekend.  So I suspect these mid-week runs may be the most important sessions for me. Its not going to be easy as I have to be back home by 7am to make sure the kids get to school, and I've never got into evening running  

13/12/2012 at 11:21

Thanks NN.  I'll be careful not to risk injury.

Although the tempo was (very) early, I have already been doing some tempo runs up to three miles, so I was prepared.  I'm quite surprised at the DOMS, so I guess it's the combination of longer run and tempo in the same session that has caused it.  it's not bad though, so I expect the GA run today will soothe the legs.

13/12/2012 at 11:24

Stutyr - is your route well-lit, or do you run with a head torch?  I like early morning runs in the summer, but haven't tried yet in the winter (except on a treadmill).

13/12/2012 at 11:34

Good grief !! running those long runs early in the morning respect to you !

Stutyr do you run by pace or heart rate ? you probably do need to slow things down a bit.

I ran with a woman at club last night who was telling me about her training for VLM 2012, she said she was gutted as she was managing to run her long runs at 8.15s to 8.30s ...but crashed at 18 miles in the marathon (I knew she was going to say that ) and blew her chance of a GFA and crawled in at 4.20 (not that there is anything wrong with 4,20 if thats your target )

I have a plan for mine, its club night wednesdays so will run easy 2/3 to club, parking the car bit further from club each week, go in a slower group than usual for the next bit then run 2/3 back to the car !! I have been going in the 8.15-8.30 group which is too fast and hilly for the middle section of a long run, so will drop down a group.

I am fortunate with my shift pattern I can get lots of day time running done, I just have to juggle things a bit when its a 18/20 miler between night shifts....

Right now I am meant to wrapping presents !!

Edited: 13/12/2012 at 11:42
13/12/2012 at 13:05

I use a head torch for most of my runs as the routes involve sections along unlit roads.  I stick to pavements alongside roads, so my alpkit gamma head torch has enough brightness to light my way (and scare a few sleeping sheep along the way ).  Its my most important piece of winter kit and only costs £15.

I'll definitely slow my runs down now, as I've checked the book to get the details and realised I've gone badly wrong with my training zones.  I'd used the Garmin Training Centre to setup the zones based on pace, but its not very intuitive and had ended up just making each zone 20 to 30 secs wide, which meant the aerobic one was just after my marathon one, so roughly 5% slower than MP rather than 10 to 20% slower.  I've always trained based on pace, and had a rough idea that my HR was in the right zone.  I'll adjust my training plan and keep a closer eye on the HR from now on, as it seems to be the P&D preferred method.

NN, definitely understand your club mate as that was my experience in my first marathon- I set off way too fast (just over HM pace) as it felt easily but fell apart around the 18 mile mark.  My split time was terrible - I took 1/3rd more time to complete the second half of the course (and it was a two lap route, so no excuses )  

13/12/2012 at 17:30

stutyr - I bought an Alpkit Gamma too, but haven't used it yet.  Only a matter of time, though.

I ran my 9m GA on the treadmill today.  I'm trying to avoid the icy roads outdoors, because the slipping gives me knee pain.  Also, I'm much better at running slower on the treadmill, without cheating 

My pace calculation for GA runs was 11:15 to 10:21 and my heart rate range works out at 137-156bpm. I used a bit of poetic license and ran at steady 5.8mph (10:20).  I think this was fine, because my heart rate averaged 142bpm and maxed at 150bpm (according to my garmin - though it was pretty steady 144-145 during the last mile).

If any of this looks wrong, feel free to let me know.  It's early days and so I'm still finding my feet when it comes to the correct running intensity.

13/12/2012 at 17:36

Ten..9 miles on  a treadmill ...well done. Sensible I guess though if its icy. Slower the better really..(apart from walking ) 

13/12/2012 at 20:08

The bpm figures are so personal they don't mean anything Tenjiso. Better would be to give % of max HR figures. For example my max is 190bpm so my easy runs are 70% (132bpm) at the moment. I am only going over 142bpm (75%) once per week.

13/12/2012 at 23:49

NN - my longest treadmill run is 20 miles.  Not something I'd relish doing again though 

Keir - my heart rate range was based on my max of 191bpm and resting heart rate of 49bpm (142bpm HRR).  The GA range was given as 62% - 75%, which I calculated as 137-156bpm.  The way you are calculating, my understanding was that the recovery heart rate was up to 76% of max (70% of HRR)?  I'm getting this from page 144 of the book (2nd Edition).  Sorry if I'm getting confused.

I sometimes doubt my max heart rate and wonder if the HRM blipped when I did my original test (some years ago now).  I try to give myself a bit of leeway, in case I've got it wrong.  I can't face doing another max test though .

14/12/2012 at 11:04

I think I'd better join this thread as I was lucky enough to get into Boston on Apr 15th with an age time (55, 3:36). In all my previous 20 marathons in the last 7 years I've used one or other of the RW Garmin-ready plans, the last few following a 3:30 plan even though I'm not quite there yet. (If you allow me to weight my time for my age then I'm equivalent to about 3:08 so maybe I should use a 3:00 plan?)

Anyway I thought I might try the 55-70 plan since my previous plans topped out at about 60 miles and I'm running on maintenance after the last marathon in October at about 160-170 m/month. At first glance there seems to be a bit less weight on intervals and more on a mid-week medium-long.

I prefer to run on HR so I will have to convert the sessions to %HRmax bands. this allows me to cancel out the effect of terrain, offroad, snow on the ground etc rather than run on pace. Where I am I'm nearly always on trails with snow and ice at this time of year, temps so far this year down to -15 but usually in the single digit -C.

Someone asked about gloves. For single digit minus I love Salewa Windstopper gloves/mittens. they have fingerless fingers and a flap that folds over if I want to convert to mittens. this lets me regulate heat, operate Garmin and ipod, etc. For double digit minus I put a pair of glove liners under them. They're a bit pricey and hard to find but they're worth it. (I also use them XC skiing.)

Looking forward to following the P&D from the 2nd edition (18 week) with you experienced people and I have already imported it into Fetch.

14/12/2012 at 11:05

Tenjiso, impressive treadmilling! Looking at your paces, that means 3 and a half hours? Longest tread I've done is 16 miles in 2h15m, but good to see I'm not the only one who bashes out mammoth efforts on the mill.  Main problem for me is, er, chafing - I'm wet through after a long session in the gym.

14/12/2012 at 11:09

Steve C, P&D has a table with the HR bands. No need to convert.

14/12/2012 at 11:25

Good luck for those of you starting the 18 week P&D plans next week for London Marathon in April.

I'll be starting 1 week behind, for the Manchester marathon the following week, so will be keeping a keen eye on this thread to see what people think of the plans week on week. I'm a little concerned that I won't be able to manage the target paces in the training runs, since i've been doing almost all my running at a very low intensity for the past 3-4 months, but I'll find out soon enough how my legs will cope with the extra effort of running at a quicker pace.

14/12/2012 at 11:40

I was considering starting the 18 week course on Monday. Over the last two weeks my left leg has got more and more sore around the knee. I think I need to rest it. Sucky timing or what! Seeing physio on Mon and sports massage on Tue. Bet they tell me to rest it too

14/12/2012 at 12:02

AgentGinger, I wouldn't worry too much about the change in pace.  I had the same concern after a couple of months of base training, but found it a refreshing change to pick up the pace for the LT session (although it got harder towards the end).  This is where you will seethe benefit from all those slow miles, and how good it feels to be running fast again/

Khanivore, better for it to be now rather than mid-plan.  From memory you're a new(ish) and very keen runner, so maybe this is your body asking for an easy week.  Its better to get it sorted now before the intensive section of the plan starts.


14/12/2012 at 12:04

yeah i guess - going to do my best to resist running between now and monday/tuesday.

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