P + D training for VLM 2013

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14/12/2012 at 12:45
LunchtimeRunner wrote (see)

Tenjiso, impressive treadmilling! Looking at your paces, that means 3 and a half hours? 

I hope that doesn't mean I've made (another) mistake with pacing.  I'm targeting 4:00 for the marathon.  I recently ran 1:54 HM, and 49:50 10K, so I'm probably just an outside bet.

14/12/2012 at 13:32

Hi Tenjiso, your pace range sounds about right for a 4hr target time.  Aerobic runs are supposed to be 15 to 25% slower than marathon pace.  For a four hour marathon, this is 9'10" min/miles, so if you add on 20% (i.e. half way though the recommended range) you get exactly 11' min/mile, with 15% being around the 10'30" m/m pace.

If it helps - the mcmillan pace calculator converted your 1:54 HM into a 3:59 marathon time. 


14/12/2012 at 13:35

Getting close now to starting the (up to 55 mile) schedule on Monday for VLM! Does anyone know where I can find a printable version, rather than having to refer to the book all the time? 

14/12/2012 at 13:55

Tenjiso - I'm aiming for 4 hours too, so you're not alone.  I have a 1:47 pb for HM and 4:09 for the marathon so we're about the same pace.  I would normally take 3:30-3:40 for a 20 miler although I could never do that on the treadmill.

Go Caz - I just photocopied the pages I needed.

14/12/2012 at 13:56

Thanks Stutyr.  I'll take that marathon time

14/12/2012 at 14:06

Fiona - great HM time - you have a much better chance than me of achieving sub-4.  Which marathon are you targeting?

I've run two marathons... both in 4:38   So I'm looking to knock a serious wedge of time off mine.

The two 20 milers I've run on the treadmill were both 3:41.  I just zoned-out listening to sport on the radio.  More recently I listen to marathontalk podcasts, and I have no intention of running any more runs above two hours on the treadie.

I put my planned runs, paces, and so on into a spreadsheet 

14/12/2012 at 14:18

i plan on putting my runs into my phone calendar, a couple of weeks at a time, so i always know what's coming up for the next couple of weeks.


14/12/2012 at 14:27
14/12/2012 at 14:31

I am amazed how anyone can run for that long on a treadmill, I sometimes do 4-5 milers and that really is all I can manage.

Ten you obviously have the determination and bloody mindedness needed to see the training through if you can do 20 millers on a treadmill !!

Mind you having just got back from the most soul destroying 15.6 miler I can see the appeal of running indoors in the warm and dry while listening to the radio....when I set of it was just raining lightly.,but by the time I was 7/8 miles in it was hammering down and blowing a sodding gale !! plenty of hills too, I really couldnt have got any wetter, my hands were so numb and cold I could hardly unlock the back door !! Anyway guess there is plenty more of that to come so best get used to it !!

I run by heart rate and pace varies between 9- 9-30ish for  my long runs..todays was 2.5 hours ave pace of 9.37..battling with a headwind for the last 5 miles.

My half marathon times are around 1.40-  1 .44 pb 1.39 have done  london 4 times 4.01.... 3.47.... 3.43 and PB 3.40 would   love 3.35 next time but its all about how it goes on the day !! its easy to blow it by going off too fast ...and for me if its warm I got no chance !!!

I think the calculators are a little generous most people need to add another 10 15 mins to the prediction . But everyone is different...

Not officailly started my schedule but been doing regular 14-16 milers in prep


Edited: 14/12/2012 at 14:33
14/12/2012 at 15:45

Have lurked a fair bit since about page 1 of the thread and picking up the mine of information that comes from having so many minds inputting on here.  I have been running about 40+ miles per week for the last 3 weeks or so with no problem, this morning I can feel tight muscles in one calf Will rest for a couple of days and test it Sunday hoping to start Monday with the 18 week up to 55 mile plan, that said Day 1 is a rest day

Interesting to see the relationships between people's HM and marathon times.  I ran a 1.37 in 2008 and then 3.33 at London.  5 years on, and aged 59 when I run in April I don't think it will be quite that good, my HM now is sub 1.45 depending on conditions, so hoping for about 3.45, but if the plan is good might be better

14/12/2012 at 16:18

NN - great times.  I suspect you are probably right about the actual marathon finishing time.  I'm training for a sub-4 and hoping for a fair wind on the day   I've recently been running 9:00 - 9:30 pace on my long runs too (up to 12 miles).  However, I realise that would be detrimental to other quality sessions, so I have to try to be disciplined for a few months at least


14/12/2012 at 16:29

Doing a half marathon race in March if we can should give us a better ides of how the training is going.

my times should be quicker really with the years I have been running and the miles I plod...but I have always had a serious aversion to running fast so never really done any structured speed work for a decent length of time I will happily plod around 15 miles but HATE the thought of interval sessions even tempo runs !! but the plus side is I don't get injured as it tends to be the faster stuff that cause problems.

14/12/2012 at 16:29

Tenjiso - I'm doing VLM.  I have to say that was a fairly recent HM pb after doing VLM in April.  According to that time I should be able to do a marathon in 3:48 or something  so I don't really trust the predictors.

Night nurse - there is nothing more unpleasant than a run like that.  When you're feet start to squelch you know you're in trouble. I had a similar thing last summer just as I was about to turn round half way through a 14 miler. That's when you wish it had happened earlier and you could abort the whole thing.

14/12/2012 at 16:36

Fi.. I took my kit off and its was saturated like it had come out the washing machine without going through a spin cycle. I had to scramble up some hedges scratching myself and hitching and snagging my tights  ( I am 50 ffs !!! ) as many of the lanes are flooded   AGAIN !!!

Still its done now all showered fed and watered nice and warm...and smug day off tomorrow  

Fi am I right in remebering its you that got your 4.09 on a tough course ??


Edited: 14/12/2012 at 16:39
14/12/2012 at 17:21

NN - I'm booked into Silverston HM in March.  If I can go sub 1:50 it's game on, otherwise....  well, let's not go there just yet.

According to predictors, I should have run a fair bit quicker than 4:38... twice 

14/12/2012 at 21:23

Hi all,

Nice to see target times coming out early doors. I did VLM last year in 3.13.04 and manged a 1.24.40 half in Chester a couple of weeks later. Been injured pretty much since other than an 18.34 5k effort in June. I have managed to do some decent base building up to mid 40s through november though and am due to start P&D for london like so many others on Monday. I have took a relax week due to a cold this week and am hoping to get a mlsr on sunday and then into it. Havent settled into a target time yet and probably do a hybridd between upto 55 and 55 -75

Tenjiso - If you have a 1.50 in the bag then endurance is your focus - but you know that already 

14/12/2012 at 21:33

Mennania - i don't have a 1:50 yet.  I was on course until I picked up a knee injury, so my best is just under 1:55.  Silverstone is my target for attempting a sub 1:50.

14/12/2012 at 22:07

Menn I like the description HYBRIDD  that's what I shall do.. I wont be doing the doubles in the up to 70 miles but I know I can easily manage more than 55

Ten I have a local half in March too...also a 20 mile race but will only do 14-15 at  intended race pace.

Edited: 14/12/2012 at 22:07
14/12/2012 at 22:28
NN - no the 4:09 was at VLM in April. I managed 4:11 at the end of October on the tough course. I think that it probably reflects better and stronger running tho' even though the time wasn't quite so good so I'm hopeful of a better time especially with more miles.
14/12/2012 at 22:51

NN - Yeh, it has one more d than a normal hyrbid too - thats whats makes it ddouble hardd .

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