P + D training for VLM 2013

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07/05/2013 at 08:42

Hmmm...just lost my previous message...anyway, in brief...well done on the PB AG...sorry you didn't reach your goal but was a tough day in MK with that heat. Keep at it, work on the endurance, it will come.

Bit of running for me this weekend. 10miles on sunday, and a local 6k fun run yeaterday with the daughter. She ran the whole way and really enjoyed it....good it was.

When is this thread being put to bed then?

07/05/2013 at 08:50

AG that is a great run to knock 49 mins off for a PB and on a definitely unfriendly day for marathon runners.  The sub 4 will come soon.

07/05/2013 at 08:55

AG - I'm impressed that you did the 11K between 21K and 32K in only nine minutes! That has to be a world record!  Tell the truth now.... you caught a bus didn't you? 

(I found out because someone else mentioned their wierd time for the same leg - I don't really think you caught a bus. )

07/05/2013 at 09:14

AG - well done mate, sounds like a tough run and I can empathise with the body just not playing ball on the day - you did your best and a cracking PB was had. You had been ill the week before, that will always come back to haunt you I find, that will probably be the main reason your body didn't respond on the day (I remember running Tatton Half Marathon after being ill for a week and vowed never to do that again). Re competing with other friends... I learned to knock that in the head a good while ago, we really only can compete with ourselves.  

brer - cracking race!  Well done to you.  I also thought you were male! 

Tecknik - that sounds awful.  So sorry you ended up pulling out, what a nightmare. Hope you are ok now? 

07/05/2013 at 10:20

Ag - Was not a day for running marathons, a 49 min pb is like hens teeth. I went for a 10k run and was thinking of you guys.

Brer - Cracking run. 3.30 is yours under different conditions

Tecknik - take it easy and recover fully buddy.

This has been a cracking thread and it has fully done its job -I am  moving over to HeOws Autumn one so hopefully will see you all in there.

 

 

07/05/2013 at 11:05

Thanks guys, I am so tempted to sign up for an autumn marathon as I feel like i've got unfinished business, I do feel a bit robbed from yesterday. Anyway, I reckon after a couple of days to think about it i'll stick with my initial plan of racing more 5 and 10ks to get speed up, before tackling another marathon next spring. If i can knock some reasonable chunk of time off my shorter distances I would then be aiming for a quicker marathon and at least if I fade hard again, I would fade below 4 hours.

Anyway, thanks for all your help and input over the last few months on this thread, I might occassionally dip into the Autumn marathon thread to say hi and see how you're all getting on. Good luck to those of you doing autumn mara's

07/05/2013 at 11:31

AG - the experts say that you can slow by up to 20 secs/mile in warmer weather so if you factor that in you probably finished roughly where you might expect.  As others have said you were also under par during the week so I think you've done incredibly well and a 49 min PB is amazing. You've also improved at your other distances which means the times are on the way down. If you felt inclined to do an autumn marathon you would probably have more success as the weather will be more what you are used to... in saying that, my autumn marathon last year there was snow.

Ten - I totally agree about the vagueness regarding HM races and the how to do it detail.  I suspect that this is because they suggest you don't need to do any during training and kind of think you'll only do the target race and some tune up tempo races (for want of a better description) I didn't do any which made life a bit easier, however, it would have been useful to have a race on which to gauge pace and I'm itching to see whether I've got faster especially as everyone else was smashing their times in training.

Personally the whole plan has been a revelation to me.  I've never used HR monitoring for training and for the first time I've seen pace improvements during the plan by basing my runs on HR. I also think that the MLR has been really useful in improving endurance as that was probably the biggest difference between this plan and the ones I've used in the past.

Like a few of you, I've been so impressed I've bought the other book and plan to use it over the summer for shorter stuff.

07/05/2013 at 14:56
Fiona J wrote (see)

Ten - I totally agree about the vagueness regarding HM races and the how to do it detail.  I suspect that this is because they suggest you don't need to do any during training..... I didn't do any which made life a bit easier....

Can't argue with your results, so you are underlining the point that P&D make about not needing to do such a race.  Food for thought.

I've already prepared most of my 10k plan from the other P&D book 

 

07/05/2013 at 15:30

Ten - well I suppose I have confirmed their point. However, I may have gone out faster at VLM if I thought I was capable of more as confirmed by a better HM if you see what I mean.  I only stuck at the faster pace the second time cos I expected to have to walk much sooner and didn't really care about the time. On a positive note with that regard - I was 24th senior female  as it seems they have used 40 + for vets  and 40th female overall which I am terribly pleased with.

I have just got the book and have decided on a HM race to target so just working backwards through the plan at the mo. I always wondered how you figured out what length of intervals to do and now I know.

I'm also having a look at running clubs again.

07/05/2013 at 20:55

Hey folks, thank you so much for your very positive comments-you are a very friendly bunch on here. I'm usually to be found on Snowdonia forum but I will now add the P and D Autumn marathon forum to my 'must be visited' forum. Cheers all xx

ps I don't know why you all thought I was a chappie though

07/05/2013 at 20:56

Because it's a boy's name!!!

I guess you could always change it to Sis Rabbit?

Edited: 07/05/2013 at 20:58
08/05/2013 at 11:32

AG - I'm stalking you round the threads . The heat was a really big factor on the day, as was the course. After coming off the dual carriageways my quads seemed to take a real battering, Whether this was the little ups and down going through the underpasses and over humpback bridges, or wheter is was the surface of the redways and the tight bends  I'm not sure. Whatever it was, it wasn't a day for hitting those 'A' targets, and 49mins is brilliant. It should give you lots of confidence for next spring to make the next breakthrough. Pat on the back to Messrs P&D as well

08/05/2013 at 11:36

AG - I'm stalking you round the threads . The heat was a really big factor on the day, as was the course. After coming off the dual carriageways my quads seemed to take a real battering, Whether this was the little ups and down going through the underpasses and over humpback bridges, or wheter is was the surface of the redways and the tight bends  I'm not sure. Whatever it was, it wasn't a day for hitting those 'A' targets, and 49mins is brilliant. It should give you lots of confidence for next spring to make the next breakthrough. Pat on the back to Messrs P&D as well

Well done Brer - we knew you can't go wrong by carb loading on extra rice pudding

08/05/2013 at 11:39
Also-ran wrote (see)

After coming off the dual carriageways my quads seemed to take a real battering, 

When I ran MK last year I couldn't believe how soon my quads began to ache after I had been training on hills for my long runs!  I did wonder if this was why P&D strongly recommend performing the long runs over similar terrain to the intended marathon. Perhaps I wasn't prepared for a flatter marathon at the time? 

08/05/2013 at 11:45

on the subject of training for specific terrain, is there much disadvantage in training on hills? Surely you'd be better prepared if your race was flatter than expected, than the other way around, i.e. trained on flat and race was hillier than expected.

08/05/2013 at 11:49

I think hills are more effort, so you might have more endurance, but monotonous flat surfaces put different pressures on your muscles because of the repetitive nature of the impact. Or something. There's probably a happy medium.

Most of my training is flat because of where I live, but I do try to stick the occasional hill in for variety. But I did avoid my club's hilly runs for my LSRs, because they were across country and on hilly, uneven terrain, and I didn't think all the stopping and starting and changes in pace were going to be that helpful in training me to run on flat roads for 3+ hours without stopping.

08/05/2013 at 11:50

I followed their advice and ran much flatter LSR's with a couple of hills to mimic my race. My quads certainly didn't feel like they were cramping as they had done the previous year. However, I also did a lot better training in general, so it may not necessarily be direct cause and effect.

I will do the same for VLM training next year.

Edited: 08/05/2013 at 11:51
08/05/2013 at 12:37

I think hills will give more leg strength and are ideal for everyday training, but I think they play so much havoc with paces and heart rates that trying to keep to prescribed ones as  in the P & D programmes is very difficult and probably counterproductive.

I still did quite a bit of hills on long runs but mainly because of the routes I used having some good gradients on them anyway, though it wasn't hill training per se

08/05/2013 at 16:51

Another departure from the pure P&D plan which I (and I think most of us) made was to up my longest run to 22m. I would also consider increasing the number of 20m+ runs in a future schedule. Personally, I felt that a 22m run gave me greater confidence that I could perform well on race day. I did this seven weeks out from the marathon, due to the way it fell in my plan, though I would prefer five weeks out in my next schedule (or both 7 and 5 weeks out ).

Today I ran another 7m GA by heart rate, and again I averaged a faster pace than is required in the 3:45 marathon training range. 

08/05/2013 at 17:10

I'm not great at following plans, in face I am crap with running to a plan, but I have found the P&D book invaluable for marathons. I treat the first part of the book as my bible (commiting a few sins along the way). One of the departures is hill reps sessions which I do for 8 to 10 sessions as part of strengthening, then drop in the last 3 weeks prior to a 2 week taper, exchanging them for VO2 jobbies

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