P + D training for VLM 2013

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08/05/2013 at 17:50

I'm due to start a P&D 55-70 in June for an October marathon. I've been running a 20miler every 8 days for the last few weeks, so was thinking of swapping the P&D's scheduled long run for a 20 each week.

Is that sensible, or should I stick to their plan?

08/05/2013 at 18:37
Fiona J wrote (see)

I always wondered how you figured out what length of intervals to do and now I know.

The interval section in the book is really interesting. I can't wait to get cracking . Sounds like some seriously hard work though .

Andrews148 - that sounds like overkill to me, but I'm at the slow end of the spectrum, so I'll defer to those with greater experience to answer your question.

08/05/2013 at 19:19

andrews148, you'll have more luck getting an answer on the P&D autumn thread that most people have moved over to.

Personally, I'd go with the plan but thats more to get a variety of runs rather than repeating the same thing every week.  It'll also depend on how much other running you do (and have done), as the long run is normally preceded by a number of other sessions so you start the LSR fairly tired.  Therefore you may be glad of the slightly shorter run on some of the weeks

08/05/2013 at 20:07

Andrews 148 - some of the weeks are cut back weeks to allow for recovery and others substitute marathon paced sessions for a LSR which I definitely would not substitute.

Ten - and you didn't think the last one was hard work??

08/05/2013 at 20:32

Thanks for the suggestions.

I think I'll do 20s for the first 6 weeks (the endurance mesocycle) as the long runs there are proceeded by an easy 5 and followed by a rest day. After that I'll stick to the plan.

I've done just over 1,000 miles this year. Currently 64 miles over an 8 day rotation with two 8 or 9mile speedwork sessions, a medium long 12 and long 20, sandwiched between easy 5s and a rest day. (Works out 56 miles a week long term)

Edited: 08/05/2013 at 20:37
08/05/2013 at 20:42

Hey Also Ran, I see you had a stormer of a run from MK thread-well done buddy. I went for rice pudding tin with added sultanas included-I reckon that's what did it and got me a pb 2 weeks after VLM. It was nothing to do with P/D, or hundreds of miles of training

08/05/2013 at 21:37

Sultanas duly noted for the next one  (and by that I mean for the next rice pudding, not for the next marathon)

09/05/2013 at 08:51

Fiona - when I did my VO2max sessions I ran them at the prescribed pace based on racing and targets, but my heart rate did not reach 91-94% HRR. However, I didn't change the paces because I didn't want to risk injury in the run up to the marathon. Now, I know I need to up the pace to hit the right heart rate range. That scares me, but I also can't wait to try  

Have you noticed the differences in heart rate ranges in the table on pg60, as compared to the Advanced Marathon ranges in 2nd Edition pg 19? VO2Max are given as 95-98% HRR in one, and 91-94% HRR in the other, for example. I'm not quite sure what to make of this (anomaly?).

09/05/2013 at 09:19

1st edition has 93-98...

09/05/2013 at 09:30


It might not be an anomally, doesn't Advanced marathoning describes the VO2Max sessions to be run at 5k pace, maybe the other book you'll need to run them faster to train for shorter races??

09/05/2013 at 09:43

Ten - On the whole I didn't find the VO2 sessions that bad compared to the MP sessions or the LT sessions. I hadn't actually looked at the HR ranges to see if they were the same yet.  You could explain the top end being higher by saying the pace range is 3K-5K pace but that wouldn't explain why the bottom would be different or that there was no overlap between the 2.  I guess they just probably changed there mind a bit as they seem to do that between versions let alone different books.  I don't suppose it will make that much difference.

Edited: 09/05/2013 at 09:44
09/05/2013 at 09:49

Thanks Lit (I think )

Stewart - I thought the same at first, but the table is in a general section on optimal training, and not specifically geared to 10K training. Nonetheless, I guess this is probably the reason, since the later book is geared specifically towards the marathon while the former caters for 5k to marathon. I suppose there probably isn't too much danger that I'll run the intervals too fast in any case , but I'll go with the range given in the road racing book.

09/05/2013 at 09:54

Thanks Fiona.

You're right, it's probably of no consequence. Just a bit intriguing why it changes. When are you starting your half marathon training?

Edited: 09/05/2013 at 09:55
09/05/2013 at 10:53

VO2 less important for marathon training....and so 5k pace for 600m to 1600m intervals is enough, any quicker and could be a bit knackered for the more important sessions. For shorter distances like 5k or 10k VO2 more important...and so can push it more, i.e. a bit quicker.

09/05/2013 at 12:14

5m recovery done this morning on the treadmill. I've had to shuffle the schedule a bit due to workload.

09/05/2013 at 12:43

Ten - Well if I was to do 14 weeks it would be next week  I'm planning on finishing the next couple of weeks of mesocycle 5 and then jump into the plan at week 12 which should be about the same mileage.

09/05/2013 at 12:57

Fiona - what race you targetting next?

09/05/2013 at 13:06

Nice one Fiona. Glad I'm not the only one doing Mesocycle 5.

09/05/2013 at 13:07

I'm doing Mesocycle 5! Just replacing 'recovery' with 'race'. Still begins with an R.

09/05/2013 at 13:08


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