P + D training for VLM 2013

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09/05/2013 at 13:19

Yes. Or just an unusually fast 5-mile recovery. Followed by an unusually fast 10k GA run on Sunday...

09/05/2013 at 13:29

I'm doing mesocycle 5 also...am more closely following the 85mi schedule though...I'm hoping to be running 50mi/wk by end of may and early june before the next blooming schedule starts!

09/05/2013 at 17:27

15W - I'm going to do the Blackpool half in 1st Sept. I got my PB there last year and plan an assault on it this time. As long as its not really windy it's a good course.  I pb'd by 4 mins last year but definitely faster now so maybe sub 1:45 is possible.

Lit - only you could consider recovery and race to be similar!

09/05/2013 at 17:37

3 letters in common, Fiona...

Edit: only ME? Coming from the woman who did another marathon on a whim the week after VLM?

Edited: 09/05/2013 at 17:37
09/05/2013 at 21:52

Well I didn't consider it recovery did I .

10/05/2013 at 15:00

8m GA with Strides today. Enjoyable session, and my knees felt fine this time so I was able to go a bit faster than last week. I can't believe it's been nearly four weeks since my marathon!

11/05/2013 at 14:36

Fiona - you cheat!


11/05/2013 at 15:44

I know. I guess it adds about 1 min 20 sec to my time but still a huge PB. Poor show by the organisers tho'that they can't get the marshals in the correct spot. Only the guy that won did the correct course.

Edited: 11/05/2013 at 15:46
11/05/2013 at 15:50

Actually that's always the irrational worry I have before doing any race: what if I don't know which way to go? And then I always tell myself that's stupid because I'm not going to be at the front. But in this case only the guy at the front got it right.

11/05/2013 at 18:47

Lit - he was following the lead bike cycled by the bloke that measured the course! Unfortunately for the 2 chaps behind, he wasn't visible, but I don't suppose their places would be affected by 263m.

12/05/2013 at 10:32

That's pretty poor organising by the Marathon of the North. I wonder what will happen to people's results? What about people using the result to enter London as a GFA entrant? How did marshalls not realise when the lead bike went a different way - they must have been around at the time in order to direct the guy in second place, surely?

Anyhow, that's week four of Mesocycle five complete. Thirty miles in total, with the majority at GA pace. Next week increases from four to five days running, ending with a MLR. I'm thinking I might do a parkrun the following week to assess where I'm at before starting 10k training.


15/05/2013 at 11:59

Ten - I have a question for you.  When you were planning your schedule did you just divide up the miles that were left to get to the week total equally or did you do it some other way?

15/05/2013 at 12:48

Fiona - some of the miles were warm up and cool down miles for the fast sessions, the same as we have been doing for marathon training. The rest were recovery runs. At the moment, I've made it equal the mileage in the P&D plan (10k 25-45m schedule), but I will almost certainly be doing more mileage in the early weeks (depending on how well I cope with faster "long run" paces and key sessions). I've stuck to five days a week for the schedule, except where the recovery runs would be longer than key sessions - in which case I have divided up the recovery miles over more days.

Hope all that makes sense?

I like the way they tell you the order of importance of the runs during each phase of training, so it's easier to decide which sessions to drop if the need arises.

15/05/2013 at 16:50

Ten - that is pretty much what I've done.  I'm following the half 30-50 miles or whatever its called.  My problem was that sometimes I seemed to have a lot of miles left to put into 2 runs.  Maybe I need to do more miles on the warm up and cool down so there would be less. I really must look at the marathon plan and see what I was doing a few weeks ago  as I can't remember.  I just seemed a little too much to be doing a 8-9 mile recovery the day before the LSR, but I was probably doing that and have forgotten.

15/05/2013 at 18:37

I'm pretty sure I'll be doing some tweaking as things go along, but I won't know until I find out how the sessions feel.

This evening I ran 5m recovery to heart rate. It was slower than usual by almost one minute per mile . Hopefully 'tis but a blip.

19/05/2013 at 14:16

I have officially completed Mesocycle 5 of my P&D spring marathon campaign 

Today's run was an 11m MLR to complete 35m for the week. My MLR pace range for a 3:45 marathon is 10:18 to 9:27. However, I have been running all of my runs since the marathon according to my heart rate range. Using Heart Rate Reserve, my MLR training range is 135bpm to 152bpm (based on max 181bpm, and resting heart rate 49bpm). The stats for each mile are:

HR: 128/133/136/140/142/145/146/151/150/152/152bpm

Pace: 10:06/9:55/9:35/9:59/10:03/9:23/8:56/8:44/9:09/9:11/9:03

My average pace for the entire run was 9:28, which is the fast end of my training pace range for the target marathon (next spring!). Moreover, it's equal to my average marathon pace at Brighton this year.

I've got a few weeks before I start the P&D 10k training program, so I have time to do a bit of experimenting and perhaps do a parkrun or two. I'll continue to use heart rate to judge training paces for Threshold and VO2Max sessions, now that I have confidence in my heart rate figures. I feel like I'm in a good place moving forwards, thank you very much Mr P and Mr D.

Edited: 19/05/2013 at 14:18
20/05/2013 at 15:49

Ten -  Nice confidence building run there. Off to hunt down the P&D 10k plan

20/05/2013 at 16:58

Nice to see the thread still going. I dispensed with the recovery meocycle and have just been running to feel I guess since London. I'm up to about 40 odd miles a week again, and finally managed a run over 10 miles on Sunday. Did 13 in total at a decent pace - but boy was it hard work!

I've also done a couple of 5k races to get some speed back in the legs, but I'm still not as fast as I was before the marathon. I think those miles really do stick in the legs! Hoping that a nice flat 5k this week might provide the right time

Looking forward I am going to try to use the P and D plan to build for a half marathon later in the year. Although to be honest I am tempted to use the full marathon programme, but just to drop long mileage on the weekend and mid week to a more sensible level. Anyone else following the P and D half plan?

Hope all are recovered.

20/05/2013 at 19:05

Hi Chris, I have been doing the recovery mesocycle sort of, but with more races in it, and like you am not quite as fast as I think I should be yet (or as McMillan thinks I should be, though I suspect my shorter race times will never live up to his standards). I did feel the need to do some speedwork tonight, though, as I pleaded (nagged) to be allowed to enter my club's 5 mile race in 10 days rather than marshall at it, so want to do my best. 5 x 800m with 2 min recoveries felt just like the good old days of marathon training, and I think I'm finally getting some speed back! 

And Ten, you totally deserve the good results as you've been the ultimate P&D disciple!

21/05/2013 at 10:56

Thanks Men/Lit 

Chris - Fiona is following the HM plan.

It feels a bit strange - not having a schedule to follow at the moment . I'm going to experiment with heart rate vs pace for the upcoming 10k plan. One thing I'm confused about is whether I should run "long" runs based on my current 10k pace, or on my target 10k pace. I guess it should be the latter if I am going to improve. The long runs are only up to 10m, so running faster shouldn't be a big deal.

Today I ran 8m "long" run at the target heart rates and was slower than the paces required for the target 10k, though if I ignore the first mile then I wasn't far out on average. I'm considering including an extra warm-up mile in each long run in order to steady my heart rate before the harder effort. Next week I'll run to the prescribed target pace and review the heart rate afterwards.

Anyhoo, it's probably time to call it a day in this thread. The autumn marathon thread isn't really suitable, so no doubt I'll be joining you all again in December for VLM 2014 training .

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