P + D training for VLM 2013

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03/01/2013 at 11:51

Pottermiss - I PBd at HM last time in marathon training - reshuffled the week and dropped the interval session but ran the MLR on the Wed and recovery or GA runs after with a handful of HM Strides thrown in. Pace strategy was just less than target HM pace for first 6 and then accelerate from there IF I felt that it was on without significant risk of injury. You must be prepared to drop back to MP orvslower if it dont feel good though.

03/01/2013 at 13:24

Pottermiss, I too am doing Helsby Half and I will be on around week 6 of 55-70. It is a recovery week for me which is lucky (but still around 55 miles!) and I have only a 15 mile run as my long run, so, I may jog the extra 2 miles after the race.  Will see.  I won't taper. My goal A is marathon, so no tapering to be done for the races as I will lose some of my training and I suspect, what with having 3 kids, I will catch few illnesses along the way, so, when I can train, I will be. My problem is I have a Borders League race a week on Sunday, and I have a 18 miler with 12 at race pace that week.  I am thinking, I won't do the tempo that week (as racing), do my 18 miler for this week on this Sunday (as normal), rest Monday, do medium length run Tuesday, Aerobic run Wed, recovery Thursday, 18 miles with MRP mile on Friday (so 5 days between 2 long runs, I think that should be fine), totally rest on Saturday and then do my shorter race on the Sunday.  I really need to do these races for club so need to swap things around.  Plus, be good to get some speed in the week before Helsby, hopefully see where I am at over the shorter distances, see if my pace has picked up and give me confidence for HM. 

This week, so far, been 14 miles easy (9:10m/m) and then did 8.5 with club last night (so LT run) - did 1 mile easy then 7:57; 7:30; 7:30; 7:34; 7:32 then cooled down to easy pace for last 2.5 miles.  I was pleased I could do that, means my 14 mile pace wasn't too fast.  5 miles recovery later.

Peace, good advice re HMRP whilst training.  I remember doing HM few weeks before Chester, I wasn't fresh for it at all.  I started off too fast and flagged last few miles.  Still got a PB but didn't race it as well as I could. 

03/01/2013 at 13:31

Tenjiso I think P&D's point is more that if you are doing a hilly marathon then you need to practise on that type of terrain. Like you, I would assume that training on hilly trails would make the flat road seem relatively easier, but at the same time, you do need to get used to the tarmac as well. I remember the day of Milton Keynes last year, even though I wasn't running it, and I think you can safely blame the weather. It was atrocious!

03/01/2013 at 14:34

After running a couple more sessions, a 4 mile recovery and an 8 miler with 4 at HM pace I can see why P&D called the book "Advanced" because I think if you were a new runner or had not run a marathon before it would be very difficult to keep to the paces/hear rates when you take all the other factors into account; wind, hills, road or trail surface, traffic, dog walkers etc.  The experience of knowing your perceived effort is absolutely crucial.

Last night ran the 4 mile recovery on my treadmill to keep the pace down more easily, felt like hard work really considering the pace, only made easier by watching another episode of The Wire.

This morning ran the 8 miler with 4 at HM, paces fairly good yet my heart rate was hardly any different from the last couple of slower miles?

03/01/2013 at 18:34

I agree with 15 West don't get hung up about pace yet it will come the more training you do.

Ten well done on your 10 miles today it looks like your enjoying running with your new Garmin.

Nice running HeOw

JF50 Nice running.

7 miles tempo for me this morning and 6 easy tonight

03/01/2013 at 19:29
For my Wokingham half On the 10th feb i am thinking about front loading the harder efforts that week and counting the race as the marathon pace run from the next week( week 9). Thus will do the 20 miler in week 9 rather than 10.
03/01/2013 at 20:04
Got a mention on the Marathon Talk pod cast for my interval session on Christmas Day on rate your run
03/01/2013 at 23:27

HeOw Nice LT session..wish you lived next door to me you would be the perfect training partner, our paces are almost  exactly the same.

Ten I have worn my HRM during a race but tend to ignore it if I can as adrenaline can give it a high reading I so have been told..so as long as it doesn't sour TOO high I just get on with it.

JF 50 4 miles on a treadmill would be just about my limit, I agree it feels much harder work...due to the boredom

NP nice doubles and well done on the pod cast mention..

Nice easy 6 mile recovery plod before work for me tonight

04/01/2013 at 07:17
Hello all, 9 with 4 at LT this morning. Total guess work as garmin out Ok juice.
Bit warm out there already!
04/01/2013 at 08:50

Four miles recovery for me on the treadmill - pretty much for the same reason as JF50.  I find it easier to go slower on a treadmill, as the effort somehow feels harder.

NN - good point about the adrenaline!  How do you decide what pace you will run on race day?  Hope you don't mind the questions - I'm intrigued how you make the switch from training at heart rate to racing by pace/feel.

Go Caz - you are right, but P&D also mention that there are no hill sessions specified in the plan becuase they are only really relevant to running a hilly marathon.  They say (pg 146 2nd Ed) "For one of the pancake-flate courses, such as London, Chicago, or Berlin, you'll need to be prepared to run for more than 2 hours over unvarying terrain."  In my case... that's 2 hours twice   

Regarding the weather at MK, if the same situation arises this year I'll wear running tights rather than shorts.  I have found that they have made a difference in my training sessions.

NP - is that the latest episode?  I will be listening to that next week.  I'm taking part in Jantastic this year (the first year I'm actually up to date with the podcasts) and have joined the PSOF team who post on these forums   A bit of extra motivation to get thos runs in.

15W - did you forget your charger, or didn't you expect to be running so much abroad?

Talking of warmer weather - I ran through a swarm of gnats yesterday morning!  That has got to be the earliest time of the year ever that I've had to avoid swallowing insects on a run 

04/01/2013 at 08:56
Didn't bring charger. I thought garmin would last two weeks. Fail. Tempo run went pretty well though.... I think!
04/01/2013 at 09:54

Morning all

I'm only on Week 1 of my 18 week plan, so today was 9m GA, which ended up being 1mile w/u, 7m @ 07:40, 1mile c/d, with average HR of 154bpm (exactly 80%).

This is a bit quicker than I intended, but I was just running to feel, and it felt good

Tenjiso - I'm also in Jantastic, and have joined the Jontastic team (my first name is Jon).. PM me if you want to swap details so we can have some friendly rivalry...

04/01/2013 at 12:53

Wow, there's been a lot of good training going on over Xmas!

I juggled my schedule a bit and am quite happy to have have completed most of the key runs, just missing last Sunday's long run and a couple of recovery runs.  

I completed a 10m GA run this morning (that was originally scheduled for yesterday) and felt really comfortable, so I don't think I've lost any fitness.  

The scales also said I was the same weight as before Xmas, so thats a definite result! 


04/01/2013 at 14:34

I did the 10m GA run last night (swapped from Tuesday) as a commute home, so it was actually 11.5m – which maybe makes it a Medium Long run instead? It felt quite hard at times but perhaps that is because I was carrying a backpack for the first time. Does anyone else find that extra weight makes much difference to the effort level?

Tenjiso - I thought hill sessions were relevant for building strength, not just for preparing for a hilly race. My last marathon schedule included quite a lot of hills, but I am not that sorry to give them a miss! There are hills around where I live anyway...

04/01/2013 at 15:36

Go Caz - Quite a few of my runs are with a backpack with my laptop and work stuff on my back, and I definitely find running with a backpack makes a noticeable difference.....

04/01/2013 at 16:14

And you are a young pup, which I am not!

04/01/2013 at 17:09

Ten I know what my pace and average time is for a given race distance, low 1.40s  for a half and that is unlikely to change much now at my age so run 165 bpm and let it climb a bit over the last couple miles if I feel I can push it without crashing. As I said though my HRM for me in a race is more of a guide to stop me going off too fast AND stop me being lazy and running in comfort zone. To be honest I am hoping that with all the base training and high miles I may yet still get a PB in my target half in March it wouldnt be massive but I would love say...1.38  will see.

Re the conversation about training on hills etc..I did Snowdonia marathon a couple years ago and did all my LSRS on Dartmoor and boy was I glad I did, thankfully though VLM is flat, most of my routes here are fairly undulating/hilly, so it will be lovely to run a flat 26.2

Just done 5.5 miles recovery, I am doing my MLR 12 miles with my club tomorrow , then my LSR 15 on Sunday , close together I know but my 15 will be very slow...well the first 10 will be, I am running with my brother who is aiming for 4.15 , he is scheduled 10, so I will pick up the pace for the last 5 on my own,

04/01/2013 at 18:19

Hills has just been discussed on the sub 3.15 thread and I have nabbed the following links Hill sprints , Hill sprints 2. I am tempted to do hill sprints and progressive runs instead of tempo intervals due to the fact when I run intervals I tend to break. .

4.5 for me at 9mm this morning with no niggles - 10 or 12 miler calls tomorrow me thinks

04/01/2013 at 19:23
Just had a strange experience, did the 9 LT run and totally hit a wall.

I did 3 miles warmup, 4 miles @ HM pace and 2 miles cool down, about half a mile from home I felt fine then suddenly I just started feeling shattered, lightheaded and craving sugar really badly, when I got home I felt absolutely starving.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before?

It's happened a couple of times before, I'm guessing maybe I haven't eaten enough today at work, should I carry a gel or a few sweets with me in future?
04/01/2013 at 19:31

Strange, you shouldn't hit the wall until at least 90 minutes in, probably much later.  Unless if course you arn't enough eating generally?


Did my 9 mile LT session on the treadmill at 1% incline.  Didn't want to run at near full pelt on uneven streets in the dark.  Gym's aircon wasn't working so probably compensated for lack of windresistance.

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