P + D training for VLM 2013

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04/01/2013 at 19:39
It's been on my mind to try and lose a few pounds after Christmas and New Year, maybe I'm not eating enough.

Well done on the 9 miles on the treadmill, that sounds like a mentally tough workout.
04/01/2013 at 21:05
After spraining my ankle in November I am slightly paranoid about running fast over Kurbs and bumps etc, hence the treadmill.
Maybe you are just not refuelling fast enough after a work out? According to various books including p and d you should eat carbs within an hour of finishing. I always have a glass of milk as soon as I get back.
04/01/2013 at 21:31
I usually have a banana and a glass of milk after training so i think my recovery is ok, just been reading up and it sounds similar to hypoglycemia which is basically when your blood sugars drop too low.

Think I need to take more care with my diet before training. In future ill carry a gel just in case as well.

It wasn't a nice feeling today, I wouldn't like to feel like that during a race!
05/01/2013 at 07:17
Eat more carbs. We are on a half board deal in this hotel we're staying in and I have been absolutely stuffing myself.
05/01/2013 at 07:21
5 easy ones this morning. Flying home this evening, will get home in the middle of the night, then it will be 15 soggy miles in Manchester tomorrow morning.
05/01/2013 at 13:03

Thanks for all the advice re the Helsby Half, I think I will try and stick to the plan that week but maybe move the LT run to the Monday before so I have more days between that and the race. I always seem to feel quite good after the General Aerobic run so will do that either on the Wednesday or the Thursday, at least that's the plan so far. I am one of the slower runners trying this plan and I have had a bit of a mental block with getting below 2 hrs for the half, my last 2 races have been 2 hrs and 40 seconds and 2hrs and 41 seconds so I am quite keen to beat it but the marathon is more important. 

I am just back from my long run 14 miles at average 10.04 pace, the first 5 miles where hilly but it evened out after that, it's quite nice to have the long run done so early in the weekend 

Mark1981 - It sounds like you just hadn't eaten enough for quite a hard session. I tend to have a small snack an hour or so before going out. 

05/01/2013 at 13:27

15W - the weather has picked up a fair bit in the UK.  I can't speak for Manchester, but in my area the flooding has receded significantly (for the time being).

Go Caz / Mennania - Julian Goater is a big proponent of hill sprints to build strength and prevent injury in his book "The art of running faster".  I'm wary of starting them during marathon training, because I believe that I'd be more likely to get an injury while increasing mileage at the same time.  I do intend to do some hilly sessions, though.  Most likely during a midweek GA or MLR.

NN - thanks for clarifying, and good luck with the HM.

YP - I've pm'd you 

Finished the fourth week with 15m MLR this morning.  I felt a little like I was flagging at 8m, so I took my gel and soon felt like speeding up.  I was held up towards the end by some horses blocking a narrow path.  Admittedly it was a bridal path   

Pacing went pretty well.  My pace range for MLR is 10:48 to 9:54, and HR range 141 to 160bpm.  My heart rate peaked at 157bpm (avg. 140bpm) and the splits were:

10:34/10:46/10:44/11:00/10:53  (included a pit-stop )



I've enjoyed all of the training so far and have found it "comfortably hard", but next weeks training scares me!  Starting off with the 9m/5m LT session, and finishing with 16m including 10m @ MP   Eek!  I'm going to be dreaming about the following recovery week.

P.S.  I have a protein shake for a recovery drink.  I don't know if it really helps, but I enjoy it nonetheless   

05/01/2013 at 13:28
mark1981 - I've had something very similar to what you described, and I think it's a blood sugar issue.

I used to get it towards the end of my long runs, and I would sometimes be so dizzy and lightheaded that I had to sit down to stop myself from fainting. Jelly babies are great for making it go away, although now that I make sure I have a healthy meal the night before a long run, and typically either have breakfast or at least a banana before my long runs, I don't get it any more...
05/01/2013 at 13:46

Yesterdays  MLR a day late to get some marathon pace done with my club,12.25 miles  in 1.42 ave pace 8.20s, which I am hoping is about my marathon pace. I ran with my club knowing it would be faster than LSR pace as this will be the best way for me to get some marathon pace practice, I will do the 12-15 milers with them and drop to a slower group for the 18-22s. So very well organised our leader even took the trouble to go out early and put out some water stops ( including cups) he took so much trouble setting up the group and planning routes its brilliant.

SR I am famous for falling over while running  I know I dont pick my feet up enough and have developed a typical long distance runners shuffle, which takes a lot of concentrating to correct Good effort on the treadmill run..it takes alot of mental toughness I think, its so boring.

Mark I think we have all experienced that, I have learnt to never run on empty, despite the fact that some say its a good way to burn extra calories and fat, yes eat more before training and even more the day before a long run.

Ten do you have anyone to run the marathon pace and tempo runs with ? I use my club for those sessions, looks scary on paper but easier in company , I know I couldn't have done 12 @ marathon pace  today on my own but somehow managed it quite comfortably and chatted all the way round.

Edited: 05/01/2013 at 14:16
05/01/2013 at 14:18

NN - Great MP session!  I'm a solo runner (along with the majority - according to the latest RW online survey).  I have no doubt, though, that being accompanied by a lycra-clad gym bunny would do wonders for my pace and posture   (I'm not suggesting that this is a description of your running buddies, it's just a daydream).

Although the schedule for next week fills me with trepidation, paradoxically I am looking forward to it   I'll be on cloud nine if I get through it!  Wait.... make that when I get through it (positive thinking, positive thinking, ....)

05/01/2013 at 14:25

lol...I also love solo running and do 90% on my own, its my thinking time. But all I can think about on tempo runs and speed work is " I wish this was over " 

And no my running buddies arent all lycra clad gym bunnies...although I did notice some well developed calf / thighs on the men of course !!

05/01/2013 at 14:49

15 West bring the sun back with you.

Pottermiss well done on your 14 mile run, like you I east at least one hour before heading out the door. why run on empty you will burn it off anyway.

Ten great MLR 15 Miles in the bank.

NN Great running

Happy with my 10 miles this morning 2 miles warm up, 3 mile park run 18:34, 5 miles steady out for my long run tomorrow 18 miles.




05/01/2013 at 14:59

NP - thanks, and hope your LR goes well.  The weather is holding up nicely.

Night Nurse wrote (see)

But all I can think about on tempo runs and speed work is " I wish this was over " 

Then as soon as it is over you probably go and plan the next, even tougher, speed session   

How soon we forget the pain.


05/01/2013 at 15:10
Tenjiso wrote (see)

Admittedly it was a bridal path   

Erm..... horses in a church, whatever next?

I meant "bridle" path 


05/01/2013 at 15:16
Tenjiso wrote (see

Then as soon as it is over you probably go and plan the next, even tougher, speed session   

How soon we forget the pain


 Um actually Ten...no !!

Edited: 05/01/2013 at 15:18
05/01/2013 at 15:26

LOL - that's just me then.  Innate masochistic tendencies, I guess 

05/01/2013 at 16:36
Some good runs going on today.

NN - well done on the long run, sounds like you should be targeting a 3.30 marathon!

Nice easy 5 mile run for me, most of it off road squelching through puddles!
Did my first swim of the year too, 1600 metres at a nice gentle pace.
05/01/2013 at 20:27

I did cross country today so am seeing it as a slightly longer tempo run. But with extra mud and hills.

05/01/2013 at 21:36

NightNurse - I agree, we are the same person!  It is nice to have someone very similar to train with.  My best friend was said person, we were so well matched but she moved to Australia!   I did however go out on my 11 miler last night with a girl from club, who is a brilliant runner.  She is just upping distance again so was nice to have company.  She hasn't done a marathon but after one run with me, is going to do one! 

Now 15, you cannot be serious, you couldn't have truly thought your Garmin would last 2 weeks!?!  I am lucky to get 3 runs out of mine!  Hope you are enjoying your hols. 

NoPain, cracking run today, what is your parkrun PB?  I am going to do the parkruns on tuneup race days.  Will do easy run either side. 

Mark, I too suffer with that, more a female hormonal situation BUT if I haven't eaten enough, I am done for.  Make sure you are eating well.  Carbs! 

Training so far this week has been since Tuesday 14 miles; 8.5 miles LT run; 5 mile recovery; 11 hillyish last night; 5 miles recovery tonight. 18 planned tomorrow.  I have kept everything very easy (other than LT session) but I am getting worried about the mileage.  I will be on to 62 this week and it is hitting territory I have never ran before. Please tell me I won't combust! 

06/01/2013 at 08:20

HeOw you wont combust !! you are following the plan well it is laid out in a way that our body can absorb the miles gradually , well done on a brilliant week, and how inconsiderate of your friend to move to Australia does she not realise how important your training is ?

Literatin well done on the muddy run not a favourite of mine I must admit

Mark 3.3??? anything will suit me fine , I guess my half marathon in March will give me an idea of true/realistic target time.

NP I guess doing a parkrun is a great way to get some tempo/speed running done, good idea running there and back to get those miles done, how/when do you decide when to do those extra doubles days ? are they extra recovery done on recovery days only ?

Ten more people seem to hate speed work than enjoy it , so yes you are strange..lol

I am down for 15 today I shall be doing this very slowly, 2 reasons, yesterdays 12 plus I am running with my Brother who is targeting 4.15 so will we probably run @10s..lovely  looking forward to a relaxed, sociable ,catchup kind of run.

Edited: 06/01/2013 at 08:33
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