P + D training for VLM 2013

Stutyr - I certainly agree that the recovery week will be well deserved, but I think P&D's idea of a recovery is a bit different to mine   

NP - sounds like we're not too far away from each other in terms of pace/goals. I came in just under 2.59 at Chester - and at moment goal is 2.55 although haven't given it too much thought.

HeOw - what is your goal for this marathon (and what did you achieve at Chester)? I sometimes wonder if you could get a faster time than you think....

NP - just had a quick look at the slides - pretty interesting. So the only advantage of Higdon is the hill training. If I was to do more hills would need to travel a bit as is flat as a pancake in my part of south manchester.  I do think hills are valuable though,  the only problem I have with hills is the impact to legs during the down hill bit. Been on some good hilly runs in Lanzarote the last few weeks (did I mention I was in Lanzarote?).

Although P&D don't include hills in the schedules, they do say that any of the workouts in the schedules can be run on hills (once or twice per week) if you are training for a hilly marathon.  Have you considered doing some hill work on a treadmill?  That way you get to do the uphills without the downhills.

Were you in Lanzarote recently? 

Morning (in fact afternoon) all.

Well I made it through the 14 mile MLR and 4 miles recovery at my in laws at the weekend.  And thankfully not so wet and windy.

It feels like all my runs are hill runs  and always on the way home and usually into a headwind.

Ten - it does sound rather grim next week I must say.

NP - where do you find the time?

15W - were you away? I must have missed that.

15W I hadn't spotted you'd been away. somewhere warm

Where I live is in a vale so unless you fancy pelting up and down the High Street several times (small town, small high street) you have to do a fair bit of uphill/downhill, so some of the runs take a bit of thought at this time of the year when it's dark.  Long runs at weekends ar not so much of a problem because once you're out of the vale there are plenty of quiet country roads to pick, one side of the vale very flat, the other side a bit more rolling

15W, Lanzarote you say...?  Didn't know that...   Would have thought you would have packed yer Garmin charger for the break too.    I did 3:54 at Chester.  Yep, definitely have more in me, I have more in me in most races to be honest, I need to push myself right out of comfort zone.  I always keep it controlled and need to let go a bit.  I train with alongside ladies in club, who sometimes seem more out of breath than me on training runs but come races, pull it out the bag.  So NY resolution is to be sick at end of a race.   If I can do 8:35m/m over 20 miles in training, last bloody August without too much effort. I can certainly do that pace, if not more, at a marathon in April! 

Re hills, I head towards a pretty undulating course (part of Helsby Half course) for a lot of my medium runs and keep pace very easy on the downhills.  If you start racing downhill on easy runs, there lies where I find the quad DOMS hits in.  Going up them doesn't have same effect.  So, keep it steady uphill, very easy down.  Works for me! We don't have mountains near me but there are some 17-18% gradient hills which are hard work.  Good training though.  I don't do hill sprints etc up but will do when training for my other marathons (Snowdon and Trail Marathon Wales).  

NoPain - so, are you adding extra MRP miles in on your longest runs?  I was thinking about this before actually, wondering whether I could get away with it.  Just a few at the end. 

Oh my word, just googled Trail Marathon Wales Garmin and found someone's Garmin stats for it from last year... Best hit them hills. 

Trail Marathon Wales Garmin

Crikey you lot are chatty today, must be rest day !!

Fiona that one always baffles me too how come a headwind never turns into a tail wind on the way home ? well done on the 14

HeOw for me getting up for an early shift is  brutal, thankfully I don't have to do them very often,only training days here and there the earliest I now have to start is 2 pm ..mixing days and nights would be worse than just doing nights I think, and that is SO me Mrs comfort zone !!  we are alike. I bet you have never raced a 5K ???? Had to laugh at your comment about being sick at the end of races reminds me of the Welsh Castles Relays our ladies took part in last year...I commented on how the fast ladies were throwing up at the end of their leg and that we werent allowed on the bus home unless we were sick at the end of our legs....I ran like a maniac wasn't sick..but almost had other problems !!! thats enough info !!

JF50 happy birthday for yesterday looks like everything has been said about 20s (or not) at race pace...so enjoy the fact we dont have to do them 
NP interesting read that link, a massive difference in mileage, I too went for a dip today, I usually do a bit of gym stuff and swim on a Monday which is ok and fits in with the scheduled rest/cross training day.. but also today I couldn't resist a 4 mile recovery run,.not on schedule  but didn't think it would do any harm , as long as I took it easy, if I feel tired for tomorrows session I will know why.
Ten super LT session well done...hang on I thought you were a masochist...you should be looking forward to that MP session

15w welcome back to sunny England, much better for running in than that heat  good luck with that awesome target time. 

Night Nurse wrote (see)

Fiona that one always baffles me too how come a headwind never turns into a tail wind on the way home ?

That's because you run faster than the wind! 

Of course I'm looking forward to that scarey weekend run....

What do you lot do for your mid week MLR's etc? Early morning, lunchtimes or evenings? For me it's either early morning - or more likely an extra long lunch hour!

15W it's early for me, get up at 4.45am and on the road by about 5am.  I always run a couple of earlies a week anyway so just lose about 15 extra minutes sleep if it's 10M+.  Always feels great at work, till about 3pm

LOL at 15w your back to the cold now  I have hills and on that I run most Saturdays unless i'm racing or doing a park run, from my back door its 4 miles up and 4 miles down but well worh the view on a clear day even in winter. MLR Mornings.......

FJ Nice running at the weekend, I don't find time I make it

HeOw lol the only way to get better on hills running up or down is run hills the race over the glens the other week was very hilly and a lot of good runners who don't run many hills fall off the pace and find them difficult.

NN nice cross training swimming and nice 4 mile recovery

Just back from a steady 7 miles all nice and easy.

15West wrote (see)

What do you lot do for your mid week MLR's etc? Early morning, lunchtimes or evenings? For me it's either early morning - or more likely an extra long lunch hour!

 

Lunchtimes or evenings...I dont do ANYTHING early mornings except drive home from work and get into bed, although I do make th effort and run @ 9 AM if my brother wants to run or I do the Saturday Club runs

JF50 4.45 ??? thats just wrong  respect to you

NP doubles today ? Oh and not that I am competitive or anything but how quick is your mile swim ? that is 64 lengths yes?

NP - Have you ever fancied doing a few triathlons?

31 mins for a mile is not bad, it would be above average in most races and your run speed would certainly be quicker than most.

I got out on the bike today, i was with one of my friends so we ended going a bit quicker than i wanted to for a rest day!

My mile swim  is about 37-38 mins

Today was a leisurely 32 lengths in 20 mins 

Ouch NP sounds very nasty, I damaged my wrist when fell of a bike about 3 years ago and suffered soft tissue damage which still gives me jip on occasions now.Hope yours improves especially of you are a keen swimmer I did Dublin marathon in 2007... I cant remember much about the course except running through a park far too fast on a downhill bit at about 7 miles. Your friend did well getting GFA  for a first marathon.I bet you were a slave driver having her run twice a day !!

Mark its good to get out and do something I struggle to take rest days  and save them for when I am only really knackered occasionally between night shifts.

Im the same, i find it hard to rest!

Im still swimming a couple of times a week and id like to fit a couple of bike sessions in as well when the weather picks up.

I think the key is to keep most of the intensity quite low during cross training.

I remember on the marathon talk podcast they were talking about the Brownlee brothers and apparently their coach said that their biggest strength is knowing when to go hard and when to take it easy, its all about being able to deliver in the key sessions each week.

I suppose for us, its all about getting the long run and LT/speed sessions right.

Moved my schedule around a bit this week and ran a 5 mile recovery run last night, on my treadmill so very controlled.  Another episode of The Wire gone, very addictive now, only another series and a half and I will have to rething my treadmill strategy

NN and NP some good swim times there and some I am envious of, I think I have the same SG as water, I don't seem to move forward in it like other people!  NP that was an ouch with the wrist, complicated joint to get problems  with.