P + D training for VLM 2013

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10/01/2013 at 14:19

I started the 18week 55mi plan on Xmas day (for Manchester Marathon) so I'm a week behind you VLMers. Regarding the runs at a specific pace (marathon or half mara pace) do you stick the paced miles at the end of the run or in the middle?

10/01/2013 at 14:24

Hello AgentGinger - For the long runs with part at MP I tend to have the MP paced runs in second half of run - but usually leave about a mile to jog and cool down a bit. For the tempo runs you want 3 or 4 miles slow running, then the tempo bit, then a few miles after.

10/01/2013 at 14:32

Thanks to all for the welcome - nice to be here!

AG, for the paced runs I've been doing the 'middle' portion of the run @ the prescribed pace with an appropriate warm up & cool down eother side of it (I think it in the book somewhere)

ie for the last MP pace run (17M with 8M @ MP), I ran a 5M 'warm up' (7:30ish), then the 8M in 54mins (6:45 pace) followed by the last 4M @ 7:45ish. Similary for last weeks LT session (9M with 4M @ LT pace) I ran a 3M WU followed by 4M in 24:50 then a 2M cool down (my target is a Sub 3 marathon)

Hope this helps

10/01/2013 at 14:37

AgentGinger - see page 140 of Advanced marathoning 2nd Ed.

"If the schedule calls for 16m with 12m @ MP, gradually pick up pace during first 4m and then run the last 12m at marathon goal pace"


10/01/2013 at 14:52

I do MRP miles at end then cool down for half a mile.  I am shattered today, kids been playing hell with my sleeping. So, enforced day of rest, am missing recovery run so not too bad.  Throat feels bit sore too.  Did 12 miles with big couple hills in middle (900ft of climb in 4 miles) last night with couple of people from club.  Kept it easy 9:35m/m with steady climb up hills and didn't push pace at all going downhill, just so heart rate was recovering as an easy run it was meant to be!  I will find it very hard to stick to plan to the letter, I was not expecting to anyway.  Will do as much as I can though.  

AgentGinger I am doing Manchester too.  I started plan early as was going to do Brighton, so I did 3 weeks of P&D, then have jumped back to week 16, so, we are probably on same week of plan? 


10/01/2013 at 14:52

cheers guys. I remembered that the book suggests tacking it onto the end of the run, i.e. building up to the MP or HMP gradually, as Tenjiso points out, but I've been leaving a mile or so for a cool down at the end, back at a comfortable pace, rather than stopping dead. Was just curious about how you chaps were handling it.

10/01/2013 at 14:55

HeOw, yep, we should be on the same week. Are you doing the "up to 55mpw" plan too, or a higher mileage plan?

This week i've done 10mi GA, 4mi recovery (actually 5mi recovery as that's the distance from home to work), and tonight is 8mi with 4mi @ half mara pace.

10/01/2013 at 15:29
15West wrote (see)

Morning all - got up a little earlier to do some core work!

Going to attempt to follow this...


Bloody hell, 15West, just watched that video and there is no way I'd be doing more than about 5 of those V-sits without over-balancing and toppling over! How did you do?

10/01/2013 at 15:44

Just did 13 miles with 8 at Target MP. (in the second week of the sub 55 plan, MK is on may 6). Again, like some of you above, I have a cool down at the end rather than sticking to the letter of P+D. But boy, miles 7 and 8 of MP were hard. How tough do you people find this? I could do the workout, but not with much margin. Is it perhaps a sign I'm aiming too high, or should it be quite tough?

Edited: 10/01/2013 at 15:45
10/01/2013 at 16:43

Does anyone think it makes a big difference whether you do the MP section in the middle rather than at the end of the total distance?

The reason for asking is that my normal route for 10m+ runs has a fairly lumpy first two miles from my house - more downhill on the way out, but uphill on the way home.  After those two miles, is pretty flat - so the 16m with 10m @ MP on Sunday, I intended to do 3 miles warm up & cool down with the marathon segment in the middle.  I hadn't twigged that the advice was to put the MP section at the end (need to re-read the book!)  

10/01/2013 at 16:45

PS Great to see some new joiners to the thread, this seems to be one of the most popular ones on the forum at the moment 

10/01/2013 at 16:56

I think the recommendation in the book for long runs (slower than MP) is to do the faster part at the end because that simulates the marathon experience better (running at a strong pace when you're already tired). But it also says that the point of doing marathon pace runs is to simulate the conditions of the real marathon. So if that's VLM which is quite flat I think it makes perfect sense to do your marathon segment in the middle, as the conditions will be more similar.

10/01/2013 at 17:10
I too did the MK marathon, finished about two minutes before you. Weather was horrendous as you describe. One of my reasons for doing p d was to become more resilient and still run fast even in poor conditions.
10/01/2013 at 17:50
literatin wrote (see)

I think the recommendation in the book for long runs (slower than MP) is to do the faster part at the end because that simulates the marathon experience better (running at a strong pace when you're already tired). 

That's how I understand it.  My cooldown is jog/walk/stretch after the end of the long run.

10/01/2013 at 19:05

Nice and easy 5 mile rec run tonight. Busy on here again and agreed on MP miles at the end.

15w, I also use that core workout, well done for the early start! Is anybody using the core stuff in P&D?

BM race pack arrived today and the forecast of snow 

Mark well done on the full IM,especally in that heat, must have been a great experience. Seems the only hm our way in March is the Northumberland half, just north of Newcastle.

10/01/2013 at 19:09

Lunchtime Runner - just my opinion, but I think that you should find 8m at PMP hard just now. If it was easy at this early stage of training then I'd suggest that maybe your PMP wasn't ambitious enough.

Having said that, I'm constantly reviewing my PMP and revised it to something more realistic after the 13m with 8 at PMP session that you have just done.


I've had to postpone my 10m GA as I seem to have picked up a slight calf niggle.

I noticed it during last night's recovery run and it's been a bit tender today. I don't think it's anything serious so will hopefully be able to catch up tomorrow.

I've also booked a sports massage for the weekend, hopefully that will sort it out.

10/01/2013 at 20:33

Welcome Agent Ginger.

Second 7 mile run of the day done

10/01/2013 at 20:46
Hello and welcome Dave and Agent Ginger, this is turning into a great thread!

5 easy miles today, I'm feeling quite tired this week.
10/01/2013 at 23:19

Hello same here mark I am shattered and I haven't even done my nights this week yet ! Just done my afternoon shift today.5 easy miles for me  and a few weights at the gym. 11 MLR tomorrow before my first night shift 

will read back properly tomorrow looks like the threads getting busy, time for horlicks 


Edited: 10/01/2013 at 23:20
11/01/2013 at 08:28

Morning all,

Had a rough day at work yesterday which meant working into the evening. Sometimes I hate my job. Anyone want to set up a running/training/holiday resort/camp somewhere exotic?

11 miles today. Going to be a cold weekend ahead, remember those gloves!


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