P + D training for VLM 2013

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11/01/2013 at 15:23

I like to start my weekly program on a Monday.  It gives me more options when something unexpected comes up during the week and helps to ensure I get the long run done.  Thankfully, the "up to 55" program is five days per week - so this helps.

11/01/2013 at 15:26

NN even with my age impaired mental faculties I think I will be able to shift the programme, so I think if memory serves me Monday is something like 9 miles with 4 at tempo

11/01/2013 at 15:29

Ah so my Tuesday is your Monday ?

Lets hope we all turn up on the right day to run our marathons 

Mind you a club mate of mine booked herself and the family a holiday to coincide with her Geneva marathon...she turned up a week late...thats true !!

11/01/2013 at 15:37

Must check my hotel booking

11/01/2013 at 15:49

Did my 8mi run with 4mi @ half MP last night. Actually I did 9mi as I crossed the wrong bridge which made the journey home a bit longer, but i just added a 1mi jog to the end. I'm in week3 of the 18w55mi plan, so Saturday is a 4mi rec run and Sunday is 14mi "long" run.

I've been concerned recently about whether my estimated paces are accurate enough for training (too fast and I risk burnout or injury, too slow and i'm not optimising the training gains) so I'm thinking of doing a flat parkrun tomorrow morning as part of the 4mi run. I know it's supposed to be a recovery run, but I doubt one 5k race is going to ruin me for the 14miler on Sunday, and otherwise i've been feeling pretty good. I think it would do my confidence good to get a benchmark 5k time that I can extrapolate my half mara and marathon training paces from. notwithstanding the fact that a 5k to marathon extrapolation may not be wholly accurate, it'll be better than my "pick a number" technique so far.

11/01/2013 at 15:55

AG the best way is to train with a hear rate monitor, if you dont use one its better to err on the side of caution with the long runs and run them slower than you think you should

Have you done a 10k or half marathon in the last few months ?

Edited: 11/01/2013 at 15:56
11/01/2013 at 16:48

JF50 - ah, that would explain it as I have recovery 5 tomorrow.  Rightly or wrongly if I move the LSR to Saturday I just do the recovery on Sunday instead.  That way I don't run Tues/Wed/Thurs/Fri and Sat which is usually what would happen otherwise.

NN - did you get up then?

11/01/2013 at 16:57

AG - 5k useful, but the closer the distance to the full marathon the more valuable. Ideally you'd go off a past marathon, or failing that your most recent half. If it's your first marathon best to err on the side of caution.

Still, saying that a 5k race is a good workout - I might be doing a few 5k park runs along the way.

11/01/2013 at 18:53
11 miles MLR today in 1.26, I have to do my long run tomorrow because I'm working on Sunday, ill be glad when this week is over, been really busy at work so I'm feeling a bit run down now.

AG - be careful on the parkrun, I know I'd need a couple of days off if I raced a 5k, even though its a short distance it'll still tire you out if you hit it too hard.
11/01/2013 at 19:25

Some good training going on folk keep it up, intresting which is your Start days mine has always been a Sunday start the week with a long run.

Tomorrows 10 mile run including my hill will give me just over 83 miles for the week  and still building 20 miles starts next weeks training, first 20 of VLM 2013  

11/01/2013 at 19:32

Saturday is the new sunday in my book, most LSRs through to mid march are on Saturdays due to 6 nations commitments and other things starting tommorow with a 16-17 lsr first light (or earlier). My schedule looks nothong like the book but I have it on a spreadsheet and play away between the 55 and the 55-75.

11/01/2013 at 20:15

Yep some great training going on folks - it'll all pay off come the spring!

11M ML completed today in a comfortable 1:23 so feeling good @ the mo - and a day of complete rest for me tomorrow (before Sunday's 18M long run) as I did the scheduled 5M recovery run on Monday

Have a good day tomorrow all

11/01/2013 at 21:30

After spending half the day n here posting rubbish..and chatting about all sorts, at last a sensible post from me about training..

Fiona..yes eventually i did get up...but please remember whist you are snuggled up in bed..I shall be working...or posting on here in my break..

Super paces Dave and Mark for your 11 mine a little slower

MLR 11  miles before work ...9.35...9.30...9.24...9.14...9.07...9.05....9.01..8.54.
8.51...8.45....8.35 1 hour 40 mins
Starting 70-75% finishing 75-80% ...like the bible says

Edited: 11/01/2013 at 21:52
11/01/2013 at 22:03

NN, you are me.  I swear we are the same runner!  

Well, 2 days of no running for me.  Picked up sore throat and felt unbelievably exhausted so, went to bed last night at 6pm and stayed there until 1pm today (I have a brilliant husband!).  Seem to have shook the virus and hopefully, will be better tomorrow.  Have missed 5 mile recovery and 11 mile GA I think.  Will do recovery run tomorrow if ok.  I have a club race (around 10k) on Sunday, will see how I feel, no point doing 10k race if I am not up to it.  Not sure I will be up to a long run though.

Great running everyone and you lot are nuts. 

11/01/2013 at 22:18

Hello lovely people, longtime lurker here who embarked on the 18 week Up to 55mpw plan last week. Probably aiming at MK marathon, possibly just trying to structure my running after a year of just pounding out miles.

Anyway this really is a great thread, lots of cracking advice. Week one kind of fell apart for me under a heavy cold after the first days run, 8m with 4 at LT. After a week off i've been back with a topsy turvey version of week 2.  4  easy on Weds as it was my first run back, 10 GA yesterday and 8 with 10x100 strides today. Well I actually only managed 8x100 as I was blowing a little, probably because on the plan these two were not meant to be back-to-back. Having a rest tomorrow and then the scary prospect of 13 with 8 at mara pace on Sunday. 

I'm not running with my HRM as the figures just seemed off the charts high. My perceived efforts for easy runs were still rating super high on my HRM even though they were super slow. And they felt easy. In a month or so I may try again to see if their is a change with my fitness but at the moment i'm using Jack Daniels formula to work out the differing paces for runs. They seem pretty accurate so far. Is anyone else using this instead of HR?

Thanks again for all the advice of taken from all of you guys and girls!



11/01/2013 at 22:40

Hi Padder

This is the first time I have used my hrm to train for a marathon, The last time trained by pace but wearing it as an experiment...my lsrs back then were averaging 80- 83 % (WHICH I AM TOLD IS TOO HIGH THEREFORE TOO FAST ) this time after several months of strict low heart rate training  I am running the same pace  but with hr of 70-75 % which apparently is the correct hr for long runs, anything too fast will result in burnout and you wont get the most out of subsequent sessions..(I suppose you will now tell me you run a sub 3 marathon ..in which case I will shut up.)

HeOw...get well soon...dont race..there is no point if you are unwell you will under perform and be dispointed..and make yourslef too ill to train..

Edited: 11/01/2013 at 22:41
11/01/2013 at 22:56
Night Nurse wrote (see)

(I suppose you will now tell me you run a sub 3 marathon ..in which case I will shut up.)


I wish  I'm a marathon noob. I've only been running 15 months, purely for fun but last year I managed to crack off close to 2000 miles to fuel my new addiction. So I was getting out there a bit. Towards the back end of the year I started changing paces, doing some races etc and using the HRM but even in my LSRs I seemed to be averaging 85% or higher. And thats at about two and a half to three mins per mile slower than my 5 mile race pace. I still have a fair bit of weight to lose, which I presumed may be a factor,  and am 40 but it was frustrating/paranoia inducing to look at the HRM and think I either needed to walk or my heart was going to explode!  So i've taken it off to stop me looking at it all the time!

11/01/2013 at 22:58
Padders: I am training for VLM so am a few weeks ahead of you, but had exactly the same experience. Did the first run on the schedule, 8m with 4@tempo and was then ill and unable to run for a week. I had a relapse last weekend too but hopefully am now back on track, though I think it has resulted in me taking a more flexible view of the schedule (!) Did 11.75 MLR yesterday (because that is the distance home from work). How does the Jack Daniels formula work? I don't use HR but go by pace and sometimes perceived effort.
11/01/2013 at 23:10
Go Caz wrote (see)
 How does the Jack Daniels formula work? 

It's just a running calculator. You put in a race result it churns out pace range for easy runs, and specific pace for marathon, threshold, intervals etc. I've tried a few in the past but the Jack Daniels one seemed to come up with some realistic figures given on the perceived efforts when I double checked them with previous runs. 

It just seemed a good guideline until I get things sorted with the HRM.

12/01/2013 at 06:53

Padders - I'm going to make an assumption here..... if you base your heart rate training ranges on the common formula (e.g. 220-age), then it wouldn't surprise me if you find your figures "off the chart", because that method is garbage for most people.  I don't understand why they keep trotting out that advice when it is widely discredited.  Only by discovering your own maximum heart rate (and your resting heart rate) will the ranges make any real sense to you.

Jack Daniels is a good set of charts.  I used it to help establish my faster paces (e.g. 15k pace) based on 10k race time, and my slower LSR paces based on Half Marathon race time.  He says to go with your highest VDOT for all paces, but I found the long run paces (and MP) a bit too aggressive based on my 10k race time.

Edited: 12/01/2013 at 06:53
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