P + D training for VLM 2013

921 to 940 of 5,754 messages
12/01/2013 at 07:32
Welcome Padders, I'm not into the 85%, 75% of HR stuff as when you train you adapt and become fitter so your HR drops if you run on feel and your feeling good you run fast if your tired you run slower but we also have a brain which we can over rule to some extent and push the pace even when we feel tired. So in the last six miles when your feeling tired, because in training when you have felt tierd and pushed on irrespective of HR you know you can on the day, I don't know why so many peeps get hung up about HR so much as it can change due to so many things for example the excitement of race day can put it up 10 to 15 bpm, having a coffee can put it up 10 bpm.
Go Caz sorry to hear you have been unwell, your HR will be a bit higher for a few days until you get back into it.
NN hope you had a quite night.
Most of my pace targets come from a Lactate Test where running on a treadmill over a period of time with the speed increasing I had blood samples taken. This gave me my pace for different runs as I had been training for a number of years I had written down what I though where the correct pace for each type of session and the only one that was a bit out was my interval sessions and only then because I don't normally do 100 and 200m sessions.
Well I've got my hill to run 4 miles up 4 miles down and 2 miles undulating.
12/01/2013 at 07:47

Hello Padders. I have a HRM but never use it. Maybe I should dig it out and see where I am - thing is I don't know my resting hear rate or 100% or whatever you need to know. These days I tend to just go off feel. Man,

Just going to pop out for a 5 mi. Knackered this morning, not enough sleep.

NP - think I heard your bit on marathon talk whilst catching up on last few episodes - was it you out there running intervals on xmas day? If so, impressive stuff. Also impressive is your swimming. I think after this marathon I might get back into swimming a bit- be good to do something a bit different.

Hope it's not too icy out there for tomorrow's 18miler.

Off to see The Hoff in Peter Pan in Manchester tonight.

Edited: 12/01/2013 at 07:47
12/01/2013 at 10:20

Welcome Padders.  Interesting chat about how we all calculate paces, feel, HRM and from NP the result of a very accurate set of tests, where and how did you get those done NP?

Also interesting that there is such a variance on the running week and when it starts.  I think you need to be flexible on the programmes unless you can take 18 weeks off work. As 10 mentioned yesterday the upto 55 plan is a 5 day week schedule so gives a bit more flexibility. 

So today will be Sunday for me with my long run, 15 miles. I am going to see my girls and grandkids tomorrow, an advantage of age your kids occasionally cook the dinner

12/01/2013 at 11:17

Well glad to see i'm not alone on the no HRM front. 

Tenjiso - I didn't use 220-age, I spent a week taking my resting rate and did some long, flat-out, hill repeats to get my max. Which turned out to be 190. 220-40 is certainly not 190. You could be right about Jack Daniels on the mara pace efforts. I've only done 1 half mara, back in June which, was a poorly paced (left alot in the tank) 1:46. This was 8:08 per mile which based on my fastest time of the year, a 5 miler, is exactly what my mara pace should be according to JD. Entering my half mara time on JD it works out at a 8:27 mara pace. I can't work wether half a years progression would make that (8:08) a reasonable pace now or wether that is a tad ambitious. Tomorrow's mara pace run might answer that one.

NP- That is impressive that the BT results pretty much gave you the paces you already were doing. Knowing yourself by feel has to be the key factor in all this?

12/01/2013 at 13:40

I've just completed week five, which was the week I had been really dreading (especially today! ).

Today's run was 16m with the last 10m at marathon pace. I set-out before 8:00am, just as it started snowing heavily! Over the first few miles the snow turned to sleet, then rain and eventually stopped. The remainder of my run was in the cold and wind. Most of the run was comfortable, except mile 15, which was up a long incline and into a cold, relentless, fierce headwind. Thank goodness I was wearing a headband, because it would have been nasty without my forehead being covered.

For fuelling, I took half a zipvit gel at eight miles, and slowly consumed the remainder up to around 13m. I drank 340ml of water in total.

For a four-hour marathon, my marathon pace is 9:09, but I wanted to get nearer to 9:00 for this run (though I doubted that I would). My mile splits for the run were:

8:51/9:02/9:00/9:06/8:54/8:42/8:56/9:02/9:01/8:52 (average 8:57 )

I am surprised and delighted with that! Hitting 9:01 during that fifteenth mile wasn't easy and I felt like celebrating there and then!  My heart rate range for MP miles is 153-168bpm. It peaked at 167bpm, and the averages per MP mile were:


IMHO - not too shabby!

This is my highest mileage week ever, and I'm feeling really happy about progress so far. Today's run in particular has boosted my confidence that I can handle the training in the plan. However, that doesn't mean I'm not still scared about doing 18m with 14m @ MP later in the schedule, among other things. In the meantime, bring on the recovery week! 

Edited: 12/01/2013 at 13:40
12/01/2013 at 13:40

Did the 18 miler today instead of tomorrow as tomorrow is my anniversary.  Was hard after last night's 11 mile MLR.

12/01/2013 at 14:27

JF50 I met a guy who is just finishing a PHD at Jordonstown uni which is only 4 miles from where I live, we have run together most weekends since as part of his PHD he had to test a number of people of diffrent ages, sex and ability. Think I was in the oldman cat lol. I also had a number of other things done with all sorts of monitors strapped to me while I ran theses measured impact forces and other stuff. Hope you had a good 15 mile run.

Ten fantastic running well done in poor weather 16 miles into the bank with some great splits at MP.

Surry runner well done on the 18 miles and 29 over two days great running but if it was easy everyone would do it.

Ran my hill 4 miles up 4 miles down and 2miles undulating so just over 10 miles in the bank. Off to se Le Mis tonight if we can get in and out of Belfast ok 20 off road tomorrow ....


12/01/2013 at 18:05

Well done Ten. IMHO you running that many miles at quicker than PMP whilst keeping your HR to the lower end of your range suggests your well on course to achieve sub 4hr.



12/01/2013 at 18:09


The heart rate thing is I guess a personal choice and a new way of training for me it does take an awful lot of time and patience to train at low heart rate..have a look at the Hadding thread !! I did a proper max test till I nearly vomited and it proved the general calculations are indeed way out. I just wanted a different way to hopefully improve my times after years on a plateaux and getting older itd not easy to find new ways to improve.. time (or rather marathon time ) will tell.But as NP rightly says race day is slighly different as the HR is going to be up but by then the work is done..

Padders what is your target time for the marathon ?

Ten fabulous long run mate..brilliantly paced and great HR stats well done indeed hard core in those conditions its good to see you get off that treadmill. Although having said that I did y 5 recovery on the dread mill today and hated every fricking step !!! how the hell do you do those 10 milers ????

Jf 50 have fun with the grandkids..they bring such fun...and when they tire us out we can hand them back  As for flexibilty with the plan , I agree you have to change things around sometimes...and I think we are all experienced enough to know how and where and not to run 2 x 20 milers back to back or a tempo run followed by a speed session...easy /hard/ is the general rule if knackered treat your self to an extra rest day.


NP  enjoy Le Mis do you actually live/work in Belfast ? have fun in the mud tomorrow !!

Just getting ready fo another shift..only 2 nights this week , used up a bit of leave so I can get 18-19 done tomorrow when I get up , then go straight back to bed again rather then go back to work !!

SR well done on getting that 18 done after yesterdays 11..i just did the required 5 recovery I dont think I could have done 18 the day after an 11..good effort you.And happy anniversary ..how many years ?

Edited: 12/01/2013 at 18:23
12/01/2013 at 18:24

 long post !!

12/01/2013 at 18:50

SR - 18m after an 11m MLR the previous night  Great work getting that done.  You'll probably sleep through your anniversary 

Thanks NP/Ziggy/NN

I run treadmill runs with an mp3 player and listen to podcasts so I can zone-out.  I've had a couple of occasions when I forgot to charge the battery, though, which made the longer runs significantly more tortuous.

Good luck with the long runs tomorrow.  I haven't checked recently, but the weather forecast wasn't too promising.  

Edited: 12/01/2013 at 18:50
12/01/2013 at 18:58
Tenjiso wrote (see)

Good luck with the long runs tomorrow.  I haven't checked recently, but the weather forecast wasn't too promising.  

Eek... no snow forecast here until Monday, so hopefully I'll be all right for my 18-miler, though 18 miles in fog probably won't be that much fun either!

I did Friday's 11-miler the same way as Wednesday - 5 miles on my own and then the last 6 with the club, who as usual took it a bit faster than I'd plan to go so I ended up doing a few miles at marathon pace, but it was okay. Then felt unenthusiastic about my 5-mile recovery run today (possibly a mistake to go to the pub after the club run) but felt good afterwards.

Happy anniversary to SR!

12/01/2013 at 19:55

Thanks is our 12th anniversary.
legs still a bit sore. However I have only got five mile tomorrow while you guys are struggling doing 18 through the snow.... Probably do the five on the treadmill to keep the speed down.
Edited: 12/01/2013 at 19:57
12/01/2013 at 22:23

Some great running and effort being posted here.

5m rec here ahead of 2nd 20 miler of the campaign in the morning. Going to run it like the last one unfuelled. Also staying alcohol free until after VLM, anybody else on the wagon?

NP hope you made it to the film but just seeing the news now maybe not?

NN good luck with lsr after working all night.

Belated Happy Anniversary SR

MOTD now, bad day at the office for both our teams Mark. How did your long run go today?

12/01/2013 at 23:08
Markf wrote (see)

...anybody else on the wagon?

Six years and counting... 

12/01/2013 at 23:41
If you get the chance go see the film very close to the stage show and Hugh Jackman and Anne Hathaway are the stars of the film
Night Nurse no and no, live 13 miles outside but worked there for 20 or so years before promotion moved me up to Ballymena.
20 miles in the morning nite
12/01/2013 at 23:57
Mark- Yeah it's been a bad day for both our teams, although its still very close at the top! I'll be happy if we make the playoffs and then see what happens.

My long run went ok, I felt a bit more tired after the 11 yesterday so I just kept the pace steady all the way. Finished the 18 in 2.24.

I'm praying we don't get much snow before next weekend, looking forward to racing now.

NP - I was at a wedding in Ballymena not long ago @ Galgorm Manor, It must be a lovely place to live.

Good luck to everyone doing long runs tomorrow.
Make sure you wrap up warm!
13/01/2013 at 07:29

 Morning everybody, and Happy anniversary SR.

I only had one beer yesterday, and none on Friday, so for me that is definately on the wagon. I expect I'll fall off late afternoon today sometime.

Got 18 miles now. About the last thing I feel like doing, but I'm sure will be ok once gets going. Not sure how many layers to wear, probably long sleeve t-shirt under windproof, and some gloves. My hands seem to always suffer the most in the cold.

Well done to all who have already ran their LSR's, and good luck to all yet to.

Went to see Peter Pan with The Hoff as Captain Hook last night as we got dead cheap tickets.  First time I've been to a panto since I was a kiddy.

13/01/2013 at 07:36
Morning all, Mark I know it well it has a great spa.
15West like you about to head out for 20, I'm going off road today so need to drive about 15 or so miles to the start of the trail so waiting for breakfast to settle and for it to get light. Enjoy your runs peeps.
13/01/2013 at 10:37

Hello - 18mi conquered in 2hr20. Beautiful morning, clear skies and frosty. Was my usual route round mersey valley trails near in S Manchester. A lot of runners this morning. Also got attacked by a flippin dog (young, untrained dog, not a dangerous dog). Tried to stick some MP miles in there as next week is Helsby half so no MP long run. Hands still warming up despite wearing gloves, and my nose was streaming. Lovely.

Hope all well wherever you are.

Previously bookmarked threads are now visible in "Followed Threads". You can also manage notifications on these threads from the "Forum Settings" section of your profile settings page to prevent being sent an email when a reply is made.
Forum Jump  

RW competitions

RW Forums