P + D training for VLM 2013

15West -Nice run.

When you cracked sub 3 last year, what sort of half marathon times did you do in the lead up to the race?

Im planning to set off at 1.25 pace next week and hopefully speed up a bit in the later miles.

What time are you targetting in Helsby?

I think my Half PB is about 1.27 or 1.28 (need to dig it out) - so doesn't actually reflect my marathon time. I didn't actually do any races at all in lead up to last marathon - not sure if this was beneficial or not?! I am targetting 1.25 for Helsby - but not going to get too hung up about it. After this marathon am going to try and improve my half, 10k and 5k times.

Ok, ive had people telling me that you can run a sub 3 marathon of anything from 1.20-1.30 so i thought i might get an idea from your half time.

My pb was 1.27 a couple of years ago so im hoping ill be quicker this time.

Afternoon all. Good long runs banked there 15W and Mark. Not long back from mine, 20m in 2hr 42. Also suffered from constant dripping nose but otherwise fine. V cold but much prefer cold weather to run in. Still can't get my head round how you did that IM Mark in all that heat. Some pavements quite slippy, hope don't have to dreadmill it this week.

Is anybody else racing next weekend? I5W/Mark what you planning for this week, having not missed a P&D session yet not sure how to play it this week.

I keep checking the weather forecast for York and it looks like they will get snow Mon/Tues so hope it clears for Sunday. You got your race number yet Mark?

How was the panto 15W?

Food time now 

Markf wrote (see)

MOTD now, bad day at the office for both our teams Mark. 

Bad day at the Brit also  

Ten that was a fab long run, the marathon pace section looked really strong, you look like you are right on track. 

NP - I went to Les Mis on Friday - wanted to go stright back and see it again it was  so good.

Just finished my 15 miler, was trying to stay more consistantly around pacing but it was tricky where some ice patches meant taking care or walking round. 9.59/10.03/9.57/10.16/10.15/10.03/10.00/9.59/10.34 (icy bit) /9.59/10.08/ 10.12/10.12/10.10/9.58. I have given up wearing the heart-rate monitor for a bit, I didn't know my true max and it rubbed me raw last time, so I left it off.

I have Helsby too next weekend, I have taken the advice not to taper and am prepared to drop back the pace if it feels to tough, I will aim to set out at my most recent half pace and see how it goes on tiredish legs.

I have found the plan good so far, my legs feel good between runs even with the higher mileage, (previously in marathon training my legs have always felt a bit tired) I put this down to the slower paces, although my long run pace is quite a bit quicker than this time last year, but hopefully that is progress. 

I am using paces averaged from Daniels Vdot formulas and the Mcmillan pacing calculator and read the advice about doing the GA runs slower. I will be glad to do more speedwork soon though as I quite like it and am wondering if I will ever be able to run quicker again after all the slow miles.

Markf - Yeah the IM was a tough day, +40c heat, swimming without a wetsuit, 5000feet ascent on the bike that was before the marathon!

I'll stop going on about it now though!

I think im number 200 next week, ill double check when i get home, what number are you? I'll try and look out for you, just hope the weather is ok.

Well done on the  long run by the way.

Pottermiss - I know where the name comes from now! Your game was like certainly entertaining yesterday

Well done on the long run.

Gorgeous day for an 18-miler here too -- paths a bit frosty but not really slippery. I got a bit lost in the middle (must be the only person capable of getting lost on a route that's mainly along the river) but still ended up with a run of about the right length, and a nice half-mile cool-down jog back home after doing the 18 miles in 2:26.

I was really trying to keep the pace down to 8:45 for the first few miles, but kept catching myself going way too fast and having to slow down (sunshine = overenthusiasm?) so in the end I just went for anywhere between 8:20 and 8:30, which is still in the recommended MP + 10-20% range, and that was much easier to maintain without trying to go racing off every 5 minutes. Then after 9 miles I was still feeling enthusiastic, so sped up to around 8 minute miles for the rest, with the last three miles a bit faster (mile 18 @ 7:22).

pottermiss wrote (see)

. I will be glad to do more speedwork soon though as I quite like it and am wondering if I will ever be able to run quicker again after all the slow miles.

 I'd been thinking that too but did loads better at cross country last weekend than at a similar race before the P&D training started, so I think it's working.

Oh, and 15West & Markf, glad it's not just me with the attractive snotty nose! I like to wipe it on my gloves when no-one is looking.

Great long run there Lit, and a strong finish bodes well. What is your mp target? In the end I gave up wiping the hooter and just let it drip!

Did you go to the match yesterday PM, felt sorry for Jonny Walters, think he needs to stay out of his own pen area for the next few games. Don't worry bout the speed it'll still be there.

Mark I'm No. 997 next week, will look out for you. Was supposed to be going with a mate from work but he's benched at the min. No way could I imagine that swim and bike then the mara. One day maybe!

The dreaded beetroot juice will be making an appearance ahead of the half next week  Anyone else tried it? I'm convinced by the science but not sure its worth it!

Yes I did go to the match, no idea what Walters was doing there, Pulis must have said 'defend, defend, defend' . I thought it was promising until 3 - 0 down 

Markf wrote (see)

The dreaded beetroot juice will be making an appearance ahead of the half next week  Anyone else tried it? I'm convinced by the science but not sure its worth it!

Its funny ive been reading about the beetroot juice at work today, I dont really want to be glugging down litres of the stuff but Holland and Barratt do a small shot which is supposed to be more concentrated. I know you shouldnt try anything new on race day but i was tempted to get some for next week!

Yeah its the Beet it shots I've had. The stuff I read said to start with them 3 days before a race and no need for 1 on race day. Worth a go imo, i've tried it twice and other than the taste not had any probs with it. Oh and the red coloured pee 

15West great 18 mile run sir in the bank.

Mark1981 I did 1:20 and 1:22 when I went sub 3Hrs for what it's worth and Sainsburys sell beetroot juice but Tescos sell Beetroot juice and pomogranet juice mix. Tried drinking 1 bottle a day for 5 days, funny thing it turns your pee pink.

Markf well done on the 20 miles same sort of time as for my run but I was on the trails

Pottermiss well done on your long run, I know what you mean about the film I do feel that Russle Crows voice was a little weak for the role.

20 miles on the trails in the bank this morning this run had it all but sunshine and heat, plenty of hills, lots of mud and water, rain, hail and snow

NP - Dont think im in 1.20-.22 shape at the moment but ill see how it goes, im hoping 1.25 pace will feel easy enough to be able to push on later in the race. If not then maybe sub 3 might be a bit too ambitious a target.

Did the Beetroot juice make any difference to your running? Im looking forward to seeing the side affects

Nice run. sounds like another good week for everyone.

Mark1981 I don't know if it made any diffrence to the running both them halfs where 5 or 6 weeks out from VLM and with no taper, dont think I could do it at this stage of training on my plan 1:25 yes. What you should give a try is proplus caffine tabs try them in training first on a long run other wise you might find you have issues with them, there was a great artical on marathon talk a while back which was very intresting.

Hi Markf, I'm aiming for 3:15 for the marathon so my target pace is 7:20 to give myself a couple of minutes leeway. I haven't done a marathon before though so I don't want to get carried away and try to go too fast.

I suppose eating beetroot doesn't work as well as drinking the juice? It'd be a lot nicer.

I guess the benefit from Pro Plus would be the caffeine boost you get?

I usually use gels with some caffeine in during races, not sure how they compare with pro plus, ill have to give it a try.

Its more to do with the increase in endurance pushing back the stage when fatigue effects your running, it has worked for me but do try it on a long run first and listen to that pod cast.

Literatin it wont hurt roasted beetroot is nice 

I've stopped caffeine a week before racing before and then had sis caffeine gels on race morning and during a race. NP what advice would you give for taking the Pro tabs?

Lit, snap, 7.20's is my current mp too.

Yes NP, mine was near enough pancake flat this morn. Forgot to answer your Q the other day, am near Scarborough and ran by the coast this morning.

No coffee or tea for a week then 3,  1 hour before the start the effectcan last up to 5 hours. But like I said don't just try it on race day you need to try it on a long run weeks before.