P + D training for VLM 2013

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22/01/2013 at 10:04

I'm amazed at everyone's tenacity to continue running despite the conditions.  I chickened out of the weekend's running due to the ice, so my recovery week was extremely easy -  a weekly total of only 16 miles, compared to the previous Sunday's run on 16 miles in one go!  Conditions have improved here, so I have no excuses not to follow the schedule now. 

Ten, that's good going on a treadmill!

I had similar problems on my 10m with 5@LT this morning, The first couple of miles @ LT felt good running at 6:55 min/mile (target was 7'00" to 7'10") but then I turned to run back and discovered I had an icy headwind to contend with (how come you never notice a tailwind until you change direction!).  So the last couple of miles were 7'20" despite my HR being the same as the earlier, quicker miles.      

Hopefully my speed will pick up during this mesocycle, as I'm a bit off my target pace for next month's HM. 


22/01/2013 at 10:11

It's taken a few weeks longer than most parts of the country but my area finally has proper snow.  I just glad that this week is meant to be a recovery week and doesn't contain any miles at LT or PMP.

Tonight I'm meant to be doing 8m with 10x100m strides, however I have a confession to make - I don't really know what strides are.

The last time they appeared on the schedule I just went for a normal run but included 100m sections at random intervals of just about all out sprints. That nearly destroyed my calfs and I don't really want to do that again so can someone give me an idiots guide to what Strides are?



Edited: 22/01/2013 at 10:12
22/01/2013 at 11:22

Ziggy, as far as I understand it they are supposed to be fast but relaxed. The book says to accelerate up to 'full speed' over the first 70 metres and then 'float' for the rest. I make sure to keep my head up and shoulders back and then lengthen my stride and quicken the pace, but rather than running flat out I like to think of my legs turning over easily and my hips rotating smoothly, a bit like gliding. I might pretend I am a gazelle rather than, say, a greyhound.

(Now it'll turn out everyone else has been doing something completely different!)

22/01/2013 at 11:31

I'd agree with literatin. I've previously tried doing them as (almost) all-out 100m sprints but 10 of those really takes it out of you and that's not really what a recovery run with strides is meant to do. For an 8M recovery w 10 x 100m strides, I'd run the first 5M as a standard recovery run then distribute the 10 repeats evenly over the last 3M. Concentrate on leg turnover and feeling fast rather than maximum effort sprints...I reckon anyway!

22/01/2013 at 12:02

Ziggy, I'd agree with the others too!  Strides shouldn't be a hard work out, which is why they are included in the recovery and easier runs.  I concentrate on a smooth acceleration and then keep it going for a short distance before gradually slowing down.  This contrasts to traditional intervals where you accelerate as quick as possible and then keep it going til the last moment before collapsing into a slow jog (a bit of an exaggeration but hopefully it illustrates the point).


22/01/2013 at 12:08

I agree with the above interpretations but NP will tell you they should be all out sprints.  I will stick to running them as above because I think it greatly lessens the chance of a muscle pull but still whacks your heart rate up over a short period.  I did them last night on a treadmill and they certainly increased everything, heart rate, breathing and temperature in my frozen garage.

22/01/2013 at 12:23

A quick bit of googling found the following useful info about strides on the sister RW.com site, as the P&D book does seem to be a bit light on them.


I have been running them in the middle of my run, but now I'm tempted to tack them on the end.  


22/01/2013 at 12:58

I was once told when running strides a big part of the drill is to ensure that you are concentrating on your form at pace - controlled breathing, head high, chest forward hand moving forwards not across etc etc whilst accelerating to the maximum pace where form can be maintained. Hold pace for no more than 10 -15 seconds and slow back to aerobic pace. If your form starts to fail due to the effort then you are losing some of the benefit. I tend to do mine between the first and the last 2 miles so I can warm up and down properly - When there is an uniterrupted 100m of pavement in front of me. I would probably not be able to run them at full pace and maintain form if they were bunched up and tagged onto the end of a lsr or 10 mile aerobic effort.

22/01/2013 at 12:59

Thanks everyone. I had looked in P&D but didn't think they went into it in enough detail.

My last 'Strides' session was nothing like what you are all suggesting or what is in the link provided by Stutyr.

I'm quite looking forward to doing them now but I think I might do them indoors rather than on icy streets in the dark. 

Now I just need to work out what speed to set the treadmill.  



22/01/2013 at 13:17
Just checking back in after a few days, some good running despite the weather.
Lots of respect from the treadmill runners I know I couldn't do it.

I had my first experience of strides a couple of weeks ago, I did the 100m reps absolutely all out, I found it the hardest session so far and it made me wonder if I was risking getting injured.

I know the book says build up to a sprint but I wonder if it might be a bit more sensible to ease up a little bit.

I've gone back a week in the plan so I did the 9 mile LT run.
The weather has improved a bit so I managed to hit my target pace.
Splits were 8.11, 8.09, 6.24, 6.25, 6.22, 6.18, 6.26, 7.53, 7.45.
I still need to work a bit on running at an even pace, I'm usually way too fast or too slow if I lose concentration.
22/01/2013 at 13:33

Hi guys!

I dropped off this forum for a bit. Well, actually for a long while

Looks like everyone is now well into their P&D training and there's some impressive efforts on treadmills and in deep snow being posted.

After completing 10 weeks of base (HADD stylee) with regular 55 mile weeks I'm now doing the 12 week schedule (55-70 with some sessions made up as I go along to increase mileage and to ensure I get 5 x 22 milers in).

Plan was to start 2 weeks early (i. e. last week) to allow for illness/injury breaks and got promptly sick after day 1  (norovirus).

Now back to square one .

Today would have been 8 miles with strides but 3 inches of fresh snow put paid to the strides. No point in doing them if your running doesn't even begin to resemble proper form  and it's hard enough trying to stay upright... 

To add to the strides debate: I don't think this should be a mega-hard session but more of loosener to teach slow/heavy marathon legs to turn quick again. When I do mine I try to focus on short ground contact, a bit like running on hot coals. I find by doing that I get quicker and quicker without consciously trying and 100m are covered in no time.

22/01/2013 at 14:04

Didn't we use to refer to strides as fartlek, it seems a shame to lose the Swedish from our language

22/01/2013 at 14:10

Hello all. 8 mi with strides for me too. My fastest 100m was just over 10 seconds.

Snow mostly gone from streets but still compacted snow and ice on the trails I run on. A lovely day here though, nice to see the sun again.

Now we're getting a doggy I might have to travel to london marathon on my ownsome as dog too young to take with us or leave at home alone. It's already started, I am no longer the most important member of our household.

Edited: 22/01/2013 at 14:10
22/01/2013 at 14:13

I thought fartlek was more like a run with a mixture of lactate threshold and vo2 sections .....I really think the strides are just for form and wake up your leg muscles a bit.

22/01/2013 at 14:44
15 if you are running 100m in just over 10secs I think you are training for the wrong distance!

Have you thought about Rio2016?
22/01/2013 at 14:46

Yeah - could do mark, but what distance? Maybe I'll do them all.


22/01/2013 at 15:13

15w my 100m is just over 10s as well,  bow wow

22/01/2013 at 15:30
mark1981 wrote (see)
15 if you are running 100m in just over 10secs I think you are training for the wrong distance!

Have you thought about Rio2016?

tee hee ...

22/01/2013 at 16:46

15W- 10 seconds from a rolling start i hope...........


22/01/2013 at 17:53
Lots and lots of reading back.
JF50 it was an easy recovery run but still faster than the 20 miles in the snow.
Al runs I used a bit of my own and P&D for the sub 3 hrs but was doing 70 to 85 miles a week.
Stutyr it's never easy running into the wind but well done.
Agree with you all about the strides 75 m flat out and float for 25 m, more of turning the legs over faster. But it is flat out
Hi Chick you still over in Germany you should pop into the 2013 forum and say hi.
Well due to more snow last night my 7 with 5 @ Tempo turned into 10 miles with 3 at MP but that was only down to the conditions.
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