P + D training for VLM 2013

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22/01/2013 at 19:30
stutyr wrote (see)

...but then I turned to run back and discovered I had an icy headwind to contend with (how come you never notice a tailwind until you change direction!).   

Probably because you get less help from a tailwind than you do hinderance from a headwind.

Extracted from The Competitive Runner's Handbook:

"....a tail wind produces an energy gain about half as much as you lose with the same headwind."

"... a three hour marathon runner loses 11 seconds per mile when running into a 5mph headwind, and 25 seconds per mile when facing a 10mph headwind.  That's an extra 5 to 11 minutes over the marathon distance; but a four hour marathoner running the entire race into the wind loses approximately 15 to 32 minutes with the same winds".

We have it tough at the slower end of the field! 


22/01/2013 at 19:33

4m recovery run on the treadmill tonight.  Pain-free calves throughout the session 

I'm hoping it's not too icy tomorrow, so I can do my 11m MLR outdoors.  The forecast is not great though.

22/01/2013 at 20:31

Evening all, hard to keep up with you all if I don't post for couple of days!  I see 15W is now Usain Bolt's major contender for title of fastest man in the Universe... 

Tenjiso, glad calves are ok, I think the majority of us suffer with tight calves every now and then and a couple days rest usually sorts it for me and foam rolling.  

I have had to hit trails as pavements treacherous so, my mileage won't be quite the same as they are pretty hardcore at the moment and my 6 miler today was like attempting to run up a ski slope and had 850ft of climb in it.  So, that shall count as my 8 miler on the roads.  Will do 12 miles tomorrow on the trails too, that will be around 1700ft of climb I think.   Club run will be too risky though, it is in the dark and it is too icy.

22/01/2013 at 20:54

Don't worry everyone, spring starts saturday. Sort've.

Anyone watching Utopia later?


22/01/2013 at 21:06

8 mile with strides done on the treadmill. It was quite hard work, which I'm counting as warm weather training, and I've got even more respect for those of you that have been forced to do most of your training indoors recently.

I quite enjoyed the strides even if it took a few reps before I settled on what I thought was the correct pace.

Thankfully the snow already seems to be on the way out so hopefully I'll be back outside for my 5m recovery tomorrow.

Ten, that's good news about the calves but keep stretching and rolling them to make sure it doesn't come back. I'm a bit guilty of neglecting this aspect of training when I'm pain free, then always regret it when I get a niggle.

22/01/2013 at 21:42
Well 8 miles with strides done and outside too. drove about 6 miles to the coast to get snow free route. There was a headwind, but not too bad and it was milder than I expected. I'll be back down there tomorrow.

Ziggy - it's not easy on the treadmill and figuring out the pace for strides would be tricky.

Ten - glad the calf is feeling better. Definitely keep up the stretching.

HeOw - it certainly sounds like you did the equivalent of more than 8 miles.

15w - wishful thinking re spring.

NP - sounds like a good run.
22/01/2013 at 22:13


Heow sounds like a tough work out well done..12 for me tomorrow also .I cant decide whether to go club or do it when I get up and get it out the way a little earlier

Mark nice pace indeed for the LT session.

NP  good effort in bad conditions

Chick..hi   after all the Hadding you should be in tip top form..

Fiona I am glad you managed to get outside , a nice treat after all that treadmill running you have done

Ten interesting to see just how much a headwind really does slow us down..surprising just HOW much..

Ziggy..well done on the treadmill running..

I almost resorted to the treadmill when I woke up and looked out the window this afternoon, I was raining heavily...but luckily it eased off and turned to light snow fall, the first for us here, still pretty windy though. and cold enough for 3 layers .so 8.2 miles inc strides done.outside, so still none of the dreaded treadmill running for me..

Edited: 22/01/2013 at 22:14
22/01/2013 at 23:11
Hi everyone. it was the first time I've had to resort to the treadmill today, due to ice. I ran to the gym, then did treadmill run and ran home again. It actually made quite a nice change, as I kept boredom at bay by doing tempo and 10k pace intervals. Not on the schedule I know, but I wasn't sure how strides would work at a fixed pace on a treadmill!
23/01/2013 at 08:03
Go Caz wrote (see)
Hi everyone. it was the first time I've had to resort to the treadmill today, due to ice. I ran to the gym, then did treadmill run and ran home again. It actually made quite a nice change, as I kept boredom at bay by doing tempo and 10k pace intervals. Not on the schedule I know, but I wasn't sure how strides would work at a fixed pace on a treadmill!

I thought that doing strides on a treadmill worked quite well. The treadmills at my gym have an interval setting were you set a 'jog speed' & a 'run speed' and then it only takes one press of a button to alternate between the two speeds. The length of time it took to change between the two enabled me to have a fairly conrolled acceleration and deceleration. 

The tricky thing was trying to work out what the two speeds should be but having done that I'd consider doing my next strides session on the treadmill.  

23/01/2013 at 08:29

I find treadmills pretty useful for VO2 intervals - probably better to do outside but can get a more accurate pace on treadmill. Not sure if it matters where you do them really..?

23/01/2013 at 08:43

Night Nurse, when I ran in Manchester last year, as soon as we turned into a 40mph headwind at mile 13, my pace just went to pot.  How anyone managed to negative split at Manchester, I won't ever know.  

15W, do you put the treadmlll on 1% incline?  If so, that simulates the flat road and will give you the same workout, I think also, if you can give yourself a better shot at sticking to pace on a treadmill, without having to break the pace to stop at roads/traffic lights, it would actually be more productive (well for me anyway).  I will be doing all my interval workouts on treadmill.  Nigh on impossible to hit 5k pace on the roads near me, I don't get enough of a flat stretch. 

23/01/2013 at 08:46

Morning all, 5 miles recovery this morning, still icy so ran it on the treadmill, finished series 4 of The Wire, just final series to go. Should be ableto run later tomorrow for my 10 miler so will definitely get out for it.  15w I believe you are right, 6degC forecast here for Saturday

23/01/2013 at 08:58

Some really good tready stuff going on - dont use them myself.

8m with about the same elevation as Heow with half a dozen strides in just under 8mm last night and currently trying to map out a safe 12m route for later on (preferably without 1700 ft of elevation HeOw). Getting a little tricky to pick a clear and safe route.

23/01/2013 at 09:02

A 4m recovery run this morning through an unexpected light layer of snow.  I now know why the eskimos have so many words for snow as this mornings was the light, dusty stuff which didn't really hinder progress compared to the icy, slippery stuff that we had on the weekend.  Although it always feels better when you're making the first footprints in it

Ten, hope those calves remain pain-free

NP, I think you're the only person I know who runs further when conditions deteriorate!?! 

Ziggy, good to hear the strides worked

23/01/2013 at 09:26

HeOw - yes, I put treadmill at 1%. I didn't negative split at Manchester, but did run even splits. I was following a pacer who was very good - so just focused on that. At least there was no chance of over heating at Manchester!

23/01/2013 at 09:35

After walking the kids to school and seeing how icy it has become, I will reluctantly be running my MLR on the treadmill .  I've got a dose of the sniffles and a bit of a sore throat, so I'm debating whether to run the MLR today as planned, or postpone until tomorrow.

I've officially had enough of this weather now.

23/01/2013 at 09:45
Tenjiso wrote (see)

I've officially had enough of this weather now.

 Bet the kids had great fun on the way in this morning

Yes it's difficult to keep putting a positive spin on it.  Still at least it will be boiling hot on our spring marathons and we'll all be able to look back and laugh

23/01/2013 at 10:05

delayed start to week 5 for me. Planned to do my "9mi with 5 at half mara pace" on Tuesday, but was attending a funeral and got back later than expected and couldn't squeeze in the run, so having instead to fit in my 5 runs over the next 5 days, which is ok, since 2 of them are recovery jogs anyway, so not too taxing, and not too risky to do consecutively.

I imagine i'm not the only one who has to shuffle the odd run about.

23/01/2013 at 10:23

Hi Ten, isn't the 11m MLR down as tomorrow in the schedule anyway?  You could probably delay it until Friday if you're not feeling well, as long as you're OK to do the 18m long run on Sunday.

BBC website has the temperature being 5 degrees higher on Friday, so it looks like it will be relatively mild this weekend.

How long until we start complaining about the rain and reminiscing about the snow 

23/01/2013 at 10:26

Yes I've had a look at the forecast here for the next 5 days, cold till Friday then suddenly 6degC on Saturday followed by a 10degC on Sunday with heavy rain.  It's got to be floods where some of us are running

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