P + D training for VLM 2013

1,281 to 1,300 of 5,754 messages
24/01/2013 at 21:14

15West Have you tried a foam roller?

Ive found my recovery from tough training sessions has improved a lot since buying one. My friend is a physio and he recommended a foam roller rather than getting regular sports massages.

Obviously a sports massage is better but also more expensive.

Ive found the last few days quite challenging, 9 mile LT run and a 14 mile run the day after tough. When ive trained for a marathon in the past ive never come close to this sort of mileage so im hoping itll all pay off in April.

Im feeling quite tired at the moment but not overly tired so i think everything is still going according to plan.

Still trying to decide whether to do a half at some point in the build up, or just stick with the schedule.

24/01/2013 at 21:47

Evening..

Nice easy 5 and a bit recovery run before work tonight.

I am doing 1 x mile race and 1 x half before VLM to get a better idea of true fitness, and I would love a decent half time too, at my age it may be the last chance I get to PB.

Changing the schedule for the first time this weekend and running 16 with my club on Saturday, which will be near my marathon pace if last time is anything to go by..so no MLR tomorrow , just an easy 7-8 then nice a recovery on Sunday.

24/01/2013 at 22:11
Evening NN

Another good run.

I did 8 miles this morning on treadmill. for some reason I really struggled to keep my HR down for ages despite running fairly slow. It finally settled in the last 3-4 miles at less than 70%.

I too am feeling a little fatigued this week. I am also now reaching weekly mileages that I've never done before so hopefully I'll have enough energy to get through.

Good running from everyone else. How is the snow situation with everyone? We've still got loads here and it snowed again last night. Thankfully forecast to mostly be gone by the weekend.
24/01/2013 at 22:14
15West by some massage oil and do your legs yourself also foam roller that's what I do also cold baths with a mug of tea, don't get out until you have drunk all the tea

Will be doing a few park runs, 1 half marathon and possibly a few 10k's.

NN well done for getting out

After my 10 miles this morning and spending all afternoon in hospital I had a CBA and missed my 4 mile recovery run tonight, recovery day tomorrow swim and 6 miles back to hospital in MArch
24/01/2013 at 22:25
Has anyone read Steve Smythe's Marathon Talk on RW? This is his view on MP during a long run: "Your method of putting a fast 4 or 5 while tired towards the end of run is a good one. To do much more than that is very hard without the stimulus of a race. it can then take an awful lot out of you and then you are really struggling for a week or so and your training sessions in the following week suffer and ultimately you can lose more than you gain."
To me, the amount of MP in long runs in P&D does seem a lot - more than I have seen in any other schedule. What does anyone else think? Is it really necessary/beneficial to do so much MP?
24/01/2013 at 22:30
I have tried the cold bath thing. Never again.
24/01/2013 at 22:36
15West wrote (see)
I have tried the cold bath thing. Never again.

Ah, but did you have a mug of tea?

24/01/2013 at 22:48

Go Caz, while admittedly I don't really know because it's my first marathon, plus I haven't had any MP runs yet in my schedule, SS was responding to a question about whether the original poster should try to do the whole of his LSR close to race pace. So P&D sort of end up in between what he said and what the question asked, and the negative tone of the response might have at least a little to do with the sheer craziness of attempting do all one's LSRs at race pace.. I have to say though I'm a bit more nervous about some of the longer LT runs later in the schedule: to me 7 miles at half-marathon pace sound a bit scarier than 12 miles at marathon pace.

I think maybe the best thing to do is follow the schedule the first time and then if we do end up struggling to recover for a whole week, adapt the schedule the next time to make the MP section shorter.

24/01/2013 at 22:51

You know you're hardcore when you can sit in a cold bath for more than about 30 secs (i cant by the way)

Biofreeze is the other good recovery product, massage into those tired muscles and then shivver for about 2 hours!

24/01/2013 at 22:52

Go Caz wrote (see)


To me, the amount of MP in long runs in P&D does seem a lot - more than I have seen in any other schedule. What does anyone else think? Is it really necessary/beneficial to do so much MP?


I don't know. Only two mp long runs left in the schedule.

Edited: 24/01/2013 at 23:04
24/01/2013 at 23:06

5 easy recovery for me tonight and enough to decrankify the legs.

I foam roll most days and find it really does make a difference. Still have the odd massage though. Cold baths tried and couldn't believe just how bad they are. Will give it a go with the tea next time though and see if that helps. Found biofreeze a weird sensation and not sure it did any good. Have been using 'the stick' since christmas and think thats helping.

NP sorry to hear you have to go back to hospital in March. Hope you okay?

15W as well as a half am aiming for 1 10K and a couple of park runs for tune up races.

 

 

25/01/2013 at 08:02

 

mark1981 wrote (see)

15West Have you tried a foam roller?

I do have a foam roller - not that good a one though, should have bought the grid one. It does help though, and I need to use it more often.

Have I asked this? For the tune up races scheduled for the saturday before the sunday long run in the schedule what are people doing? I ask as not so easy to find a 8k-15k race on a saturday (or friday).

10mi for me today. Knackered due to not enough sleep worrying about stupd job.

Edited: 25/01/2013 at 08:22
25/01/2013 at 08:47

Absent yesterday and wow there is a lot to catch up on.  I have transposed my week, it is a recovery week so the mileage is pretty easy to do it with.  Yesterday I had the day off work so it became Sunday and did my 12mile MLR, today is Friday so I ran a 4 mile recovery this morning.  Tomorrow is Saturday but I have changed it to Thursday and will run my 8 mile GA, giving me Sunday free, which is what I needed this week for a night away on Saturday.  That's easy then.  Next week it is a step up to mileage I have never done before so looking forward to it with some apprehension.

25/01/2013 at 09:42

15W: I never cared about the tune up races. I think it's an American thang ... if I felt particularly strong I would do a time trial on me own but more often than not I just 6-8 miles at whatever pace I fancied. Hope the job worries end soon

ZiggyTheSpider wrote (see)

Is it just me or do other people find mental arithmetic virtually impossible in the later stages of long runs? (is it due to low blood sugar?) 

definitely the same, and like NP I fail to see the digits on my watch over those final 3 or 4 miles

literatin wrote (see)

Chickadee I'm aiming for sub-3:15 for the marathon, though I might make a final decision about target time after I do the Tunbridge Wells half in four weeks and see how that goes...

Great stuff! Sub 3:15 is where I want to get to eventually but right now chipping away at it slowly. I went from 3:38 to 3:29 in October. Sub 3:25 is what I'm hoping for in my spring marathon. Then sub 3:20 and maybe, just maybe a sub 3:15 at some point. Hope age isn't against me ...

Go Caz wrote (see)
Has anyone read Steve Smythe's Marathon Talk on RW? This is his view on MP during a long run: "Your method of putting a fast 4 or 5 while tired towards the end of run is a good one. To do much more than that is very hard without the stimulus of a race. it can then take an awful lot out of you and then you are really struggling for a week or so and your training sessions in the following week suffer and ultimately you can lose more than you gain."
To me, the amount of MP in long runs in P&D does seem a lot - more than I have seen in any other schedule. What does anyone else think? Is it really necessary/beneficial to do so much MP?

GoCaz: I think the more MP the better and I find the balance in those P&D schedules not too bad. It will get easier over time, promise

Right, 12 miler out of the way. Av. pace 8:22. Breathing laboured and I needed my inhaler a few times but that's par for the course at -6 degrees. It'll be better once this winter lark is over .

25/01/2013 at 09:55

Absolute sheet ice all around where I live   It was hard work on the ankles just walking the kids to school.  More snow is forecast for late this afternoon 

I have a 7m with strides to do, followed by the 18m long run.  I was intending to do them today and tomorrow, but may move the LR back to Sunday.  Would I be better to move the 7m back to tomorrow too?  I think the point of the scheduling was to run the LR on tired legs (and so more slowly).  If I run the 7m today, rest tomorrow, then run the 18m on Sunday - would this defeat the objective?

An extra day rest today may help get rid of my head cold.

25/01/2013 at 09:56

I'm a bit worried about next weeks mileage. I've never ran a 50 mile week and I'm already considering lowering the mileage a bit. I might replace the recovery run with some cross training.

Hopefully the fact that Sunday's run is only 12 (only 12 miles!! ) means that I'll start next week a bit fresher than I started this.

Originally, I had considered doing a parkrun at the end of this recovery week to see if I could get a PB after completing the 1st phase of P&D but I have postponed that until next weekend.

 

25/01/2013 at 10:46

I've made a decision   Not just to do with the weather, but also because of jobs to be done.

Extra rest day today, 7m run with strides tomorrow morning, 18m LR on Sunday.

Saturday night forecast is for heavy rain, possibly raining Sunday morning, with higher temperatures - so the ice should be gone (probably to be replaced by floods ).  I can't believe I'm actually hoping for more rain 

25/01/2013 at 10:53

You probably don't need telling this - but as you increase the mileage in the coming weeks you need to increase the amount of carbs in your diet too....and try get as much sleep as poss. Your bodies will probably be telling you this anyway, mine certainly is!

One more blasting of snow for everyone today, then warmer wetter stuff moves in from the Atlantic.

15W, weather expert.

25/01/2013 at 11:02

i had a question about the structure of the P&D plans. I'm following the 18week 55mpw plan for Manchester, so i'm in the 5th week of 18. So far so good, I've settled into a nice training rhythm, and I understand the way the weeks are planned out, i.e.

Hard / Easy / Hard / rest / Easy / Long / rest

But looking ahead a couple of weeks I see that the pattern changes, shifting around the Hard and Easy runs, and also kind of blurring the lines between them by having interval sessions followed the next day by a 12mi GA run (hardly a gentle recovery).

So i just wondered what you guys make of this. I know some people subscribe to the idea that it's just a framework and the exact placing of certain sessions is not so important, it's not a prescription for a successful marathon, and a little flexibility isn't too bad. But if that's the case, why change the pattern half way through the plan? Presumably P&D think there's some training benefit to scheduling the runs this way, but it's not obvious to me which rest days are more critical than others. So if i need to shuffle my runs around a little, to allow for the odd missed run through injury or because of personal commitments, i'm not sure when it's ok to put two runs back to back. Anyone else find this slightly confusing?

 

25/01/2013 at 11:29

it's all about your mesocycles...or something...Mesocycle 2 is about improving lactate threshold - so there will be more tempo/LT/VO2 sessions, and there will be back to back tough days. If you have a MLR after another hard session then keep the MLR pace steady.

If shifting things round and end up with back to back hard sessions, have two recovery/easy days after. Also - if you're going to miss any sessions miss the recovery runs - try get all the main hard sessions.

1,281 to 1,300 of 5,754 messages
Previously bookmarked threads are now visible in "Followed Threads". You can also manage notifications on these threads from the "Forum Settings" section of your profile settings page to prevent being sent an email when a reply is made.
Forum Jump  

RW competitions

RW Forums