P + D training for VLM 2013

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05/11/2012 at 12:38

Funny you should mention that Tek. I'm going to give the sub LT a go for as long as possible rather than the LT runs. I always struggle with the speed of LT runs and my legs/ feet arn't right for days afterwards so they sometimes cost me miles in training. 

05/11/2012 at 12:50
Teknik wrote (see)

mace - the Vdot intervals are at 5k pace (P&D p24)...you won't be able to focus on the HR monitor ,but that should be 93-95% max-ish.

Interesting. What should HM HR be as a % of max?

Teknik wrote (see)

My goals are to get back up to 65m pw (all slow except maybe one sub-LT pw), jump on the P&D 12/70 (with extra LSR miles), and 

Interesting again. I also have planned for HADD to turn into P&D 18week. Put perhaps if I 'think' I am still HADDing for a further 6 weeks rather than P&D, it might help to reel me in a bit, which will probably be better long term and also mean I am fresher for the final 12 P&D weeks. 

05/11/2012 at 13:01

I've got a place in VLM and am planning to follow the P&D 18 week/55 mile plan.  

I had been toying with the idea of starting the plan two weeks early (3rd Dec) so that any unexpected lay-offs (minor injuries, cough/cold etc) still allowed me to complete the plan.  Has anyone successfully used this approach?  

05/11/2012 at 14:40

Keir - the HR I quoted is from P&D p19.  They don't put one in for a HM...personally my HM HR is way higher than MP HR as there's only 13 miles of drift to worry about...I'd be interested to hear what the guys on the Hadd thread say...

added advantage of 12w is no Vdot until 6 weeks to go (vs 8 weeks)

Hi stutyr - I always add an extra recovery week for that reason...

05/11/2012 at 17:00
Hi all,

I wouldn't mind some advice please, as I'm trying to decide between two options.

Option A is to start following the 18 week 55-70m schedule at the beginning of December (22 weeks away from my proposed marathon on 6th May), and to plan to repeat 3-4 weeks of the schedule. This would mean I could extend the 2nd phase (or mesocycle) and could repeat some of the weeks where there are long runs @ MP....

Option B is to spend the time from mid November to beginning of January base building, with lots of slow aerobic running, and no real speedwork. Then start the 18 week schedule on 1st January....

If it helps, my average weekly mileage this year is around 40-45 miles.

What do you reckon?
05/11/2012 at 17:57
Keir wrote (see)
Interesting. What should HM HR be as a % of max?

Presumably HM is very close to your threshold pace, so between 80-88% depending on how fit you are? 

05/11/2012 at 20:10

Evening YP!

I would answer your OptionA/B question in a slightly different way...use the time until January to develop good habits...I wrote what follows on another thread earlier:

I believe the real key is developing good habits: people on other threads have talked about "consistent consistency"...getting out there and routinely, and progressively "doing it". I would be looking for a long run at the weekend, and a medium-long run midweek: these would gradually increase in length, and intensity. And lots of other miles.
There are indeed lots of plans out there: many of these will do the trick, but only with that constant commitment over the next 4 or 5 months. I coach a couple of people and the most frustrating thing is the lack of that "consistent consistency"..."I was too tired/a friend persuaded me to go the pictures/pub/shopping" etc.

(So that's one vote for option B!)

05/11/2012 at 20:22

+1 for B.

The problem with option A is although you are keen to get started now, you are likely to become mentally tired and few up of it all after 15 - 16 weeks of proper marathon training. Normally this isn't a problem as 2 - 3 weeks taper and you are there. Any plan longer than 18 weeks is just too long to remained focused on.

Keep running easy, enjoy the running, focus on form, recovery and avoiding colds and injuries. Then try to get the weekly mileage and LSR up so you are ready to start in Jan.

05/11/2012 at 20:25

Keir:  I meant to mention the mental tiredness, too!

05/11/2012 at 20:40
Thanks Alehouse / Keir

Your replies make a lot of sense, and are very much in line with my original intentions.

To be honest, I'm not particularly keen to get started on the formal bit of a program, and am actually looking forward to having 6+ weeks of consistent, steady running, with the focus being on miles, miles, and more miles
06/11/2012 at 06:43

Hi Everyone !!

Count me in for this one, i've never done a program before and from what i've heard this is a great one to do. Last marathon was 7 years ago so i'm a bit rusty at the minute, that was London with probably about 30 miles a week and only one run of 16 miles (stupid i know) came home in 3.27.  Building my base at the moment, up to 40 mpw this week will be doing the 18 wk up to 55 program, probably will just add a few extra miles to bump it up a bit.  By the way its Manchester for me so start the program on Christmas eve.

06/11/2012 at 09:34

My HR monitor arrived, very exciting. I lay on my bed and checked my resting HR which I'm sure everyone does when they open it up for the first time!

Did anyone train this morning, I've got 6 miles planned later this evening, nice and easy!.

06/11/2012 at 09:37

Welcome ashman, I'm doing manchester also rest day & a massage for me yesterday so can't wait for me run tonnight.

06/11/2012 at 09:55

Enjoy the HRM Ship. Lying in the bed and checking your resting HR is the first thing everyone does. There are also other things everyone does to try it out. 

06/11/2012 at 09:58

Ship-star...yeah I did exactly the same when I got my Garmin with HRM a year ago. My resting heart rate has since dropped from 50 back then to around 41 now. Yet another stat to geek out on...

Happy HRing...and a tip if you don't already know, it's best to work with %HRR (heart rate reserve) rather than %HRmax. But since you're already measuring HRrest you're probably up to speed.

A 6M recovery run for me later and a chance to try out my brand new shoes (Brooks Pure Cadence).

06/11/2012 at 10:00

Morning all - hello to anybody joining us.

Ship - I've done my 6 miles for the day.  It was rather chilly and windy - however at least the rain stayed off until I got home. I even managed to remember my HR monitor today.  I really must find my max heart rate. One of my plans for this week I think.

06/11/2012 at 10:07

Morning all

I was out at 5.30am this morning, in sub zero conditions for any easy 6 miles with the dog. Average HR was 130bpm, which for me is about 58% of my WHRR.

Today was my first proper headtorch run of this season, and was good fun


06/11/2012 at 12:19

Hello All, same as Fion J and Young Pup - an easy 6 miler this morning for me, which was the first run after a couple of weeks off to rest a hamstring pull from my last race.  

Strangely pleased at getting the cold weather gear out and having to remember to breath away from the head torch beam  

06/11/2012 at 13:14
Keir wrote (see)

Enjoy the HRM Ship. Lying in the bed and checking your resting HR is the first thing everyone does. There are also other things everyone does to try it out. 

Haha, do you try and keep everything strictly in the aerobic zone?

Fiona - I wish I was a morning person and could drag myself out of bed for a run in the early hours but my snooze button usually prevails and I run after work.

Al - that's quite a big drop in resting HR, are there any others methods you use to measure your aerobic developement except race times?

06/11/2012 at 13:27

Al runs: I've read that HRR is more accurate but my numbers seem to make a lot more sense if I use MaxHR. ie 70% is 146 BPM wth MaxHR which generally equates to a 8m/m easy pace whereas 70% inder HHR is 157 BPM which is a fairly fast (for me!) 7:20 m/m which I couldn't manage more than once or twice a week.

The numbers given by the 2 methods get closer to each other the higher the percentage (as you'd expect) but for the easy runs MaxHR works better for me.

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