P + D training for VLM 2013

I agree, I can do 18-20 in the winter with no fuel and minimal water BUT in the summer, it is the opposite. 

Literatin - I am gutted for you that you are having to truly bench yourself - do you think with a bit of a rest you could maybe restart the sub 55 mile plan?  Better to be a tad undertrained than overtrained and all that?  For your first marathon, I definitely would have the mentality just to finish as well as you can.  I find only now, on my third, can I truly begin to "race" it.  It is a tricky distance to master.

Great run NN - I haven't used my heart rate monitor for ages. 

I usually carry a bottle of water on runs of more than 12 or so miles.  If I'm doing 18+ then I use my camelbak.  I am always quite thirsty so drink quite a lot.  When I race is usually carry a bottle around with me from the first station and sip away, but the luxury of VLM is there are so many water stations that I don't need to do that.

11 miles MLR for me this morning.  Thankfully it wasn't quite so windy, but wet instead.  It also seems that the LT on Tuesday took more out of my legs than I thought as I have DOMS today which has not been improved by this morning's run.

HeOw - No idea, as I've never strained an achilles tendon before so I don't know how long it'll take to recover. If I'm back on the road with enough time to go I'll try to work myself back into one of the 12-week programmes and see how I do. I'm pretty sure I could do the distance in a respectable time if I can get in a few more long training runs, and I can come back and do it 'properly' next year, as my qualifying time should still be valid.

Wow some reading back, and I was on here yesterday afternoon!  Some great running by all, everybody seems to be keeping up with the schedules and for those on the 55+ schedules that must take some doing.

HeOw good to see you back on track.

The toe talk is cringy, Literatin and NN never had to drain a toe, sounds as though it should be painful even if it gives instant relief, I am sure you do this for other things as well NN.  Fiona assuming you paint your toe nails sometimes, what is left to paint?  Hopefully they don't look like Andy Murrays, hasn't he heard of socks with wicking properties?

In the winter I only ever take a drink if I am going above 15 miles, haven't reallu used gels in the past but do like the SIS ones so am slowly incorporating those in my longer runs.

Out by 5.20am today for my 11 mile MLR, pace 9.21, 8.56, 9.40, 9.25, 9.25, 8.33, 8.53, 8.22, 8.40, 8.58, 8.27 so pretty close to what I want for my MP, current thought being 8.15 

JF50 - I usually have painted toenails so I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do.  I've been lucky in the past that I've been nail-less during the winter when no one sees my feet and then been able to paint them by the open toe shoe season.  I'm going on hols in 7 weeks and I was wondering what I should do....I hate wearing flip flops with unpainted nails.   Nice pacing on the MLR.

I'm on week 6 of the 18wk 55mi plan, but I've had to swap a couple of runs, and will be running last week's planned 16mi long run (with 10mi @ mara pace)  this week, instead of the 12mi long run (couldn't fit in the 16 miler logistically last weekend, was a struggle to even get the 12mi done).

anyway, i don't think swapping 4 miles will significantly throw me off kilter in the overall picture. by Tuesday next week i'll be back on plan with a 10mi threshold run.

going out for my first non-solo run this weekend. My mate, who is also running manchester with me in April, is coming along for the last 10 of my 16miles, and the pace should suit both of us. it'll be nice running with someone for a change, and also good practice for not running with earphones, which are banned at manchester, but which i use for practically all my runs.

15West wrote (see)

I have definately got better at running long runs without fuel and water...I think it's something your body gets used to. It's a good idea to practice taking on any sports drink or gel that you will be consuming on race day though.

Yeah I would agree, both have benefits, you just need to find a balance. Long runs (18+ miles) without fuel must benefit your endurance but on the flip side they must also take a lot longer to recover from. It's important to practice race conditions (i.e MP runs, wearing the clothing, fuel etc.) so that there's no surprises on the day.

Alan_B wrote (see)

15West wrote (see)

I have definately got better at running long runs without fuel and water...I think it's something your body gets used to. It's a good idea to practice taking on any sports drink or gel that you will be consuming on race day though.

 

Yeah I would agree, both have benefits, you just need to find a balance. Long runs (18+ miles) without fuel must benefit your endurance but on the flip side they must also take a lot longer to recover from. It's important to practice race conditions (i.e MP runs, wearing the clothing, fuel etc.) so that there's no surprises on the day.

I agree Alan, though I am hoping not to have to wear two under layers, water proof top, leggings, hat and gloves on the day

JF50 wrote (see)

I agree Alan, though I am hoping not to have to wear two under layers, water proof top, leggings, hat and gloves on the day

I read this quickly as 'top hat' and thought you must be doing it in fancy dress!

Literatin now that would be funny on some practice runs, imagine doing some strides with a top hat on

Mennania wrote (see

Chris got you confused with Mark!! I always tend to feel pacy the day after tempo/LT/vo2max runs as 8mm feels too pedestrian. It does take a couple of dyas for the effect of the session to filter through to the legs though.

I was dreading have to do 14 miles the day after the LT run, when I went to bed I felt as if I had done a 10k race to be honest and wasnt looking forward to the 14 yesterday,,but it was one of my best MLR  runs for both pace and heart rate..

Fiona nice to get the 11 out the way today, as for the weather its always bloody well something this winter isn't it.?.snow rain flooding.. wind..we have all been tested 

Lit have you actually sought advice re the achilles..forgive me if you have already mentioned that

Heow I never rn without my HRM these days its turned into a bit of an obsession 

JF50 nice MLR we should run together..looks like our PMP is the same

NP hope the 2nd run isnt so windy for you

AG you will feel so different running part of the long run with someone else..it seems to fly by due to the fact you can chat with it being a slow run...I to shall be running part of mine this weekend with my brother..he is up to 16 and targeting 4.15 so I will do a very easy 16 with him then try to pick the pace up for the last 5 to make 21

6 easy recovery later..nice 

JF50 wrote (see)

Literatin now that would be funny on some practice runs, imagine doing some strides with a top hat on

NN, yes, I have now -- just had a sports massage (which had already been scheduled anyway) and he said there is actually nothing wrong with my achilles, but that the problem was coming from my glutes being way too tight and my thigh on that side 'like concrete'. This all seemed pretty plausible because (a) the achilles hasn't been swollen, (b) it didn't hurt when he touched/squeezed/moved it, and (c) it hurt like hell when he did the thing involving his elbow and my bottom. My instructions now are to wait till Monday, try a gentle run, and stretch my bottom and legs before and after running as well as every day anyway.

Lit - fingers crossed it works

NN - I like the pic. Glad the 14 MLR went ok.  I am much relieved to have gotten the miles of out the way.  This evening I will be cross training with a trolley.

JF50 - lets hope all that clothing is not required.

Oh joy, the hailstones are back..

9 miles w/5 tempo completed (pain free )

Tempo miles: 6:20, 6:12, 6:11, 6:15, 6:10.

Very windy conditions but managed to plan the route to split the wind up fairly evenly between each of the miles, if that makes sense.

Was planning to swap my MLR tomorrow for a cycle to work due to the sore leg but not sure now as there was no pain today. Hmmm...

Literatin - Elbow to the bottom - OUCH!!!!! Definitely the most painful point of the sports massage! But good news that it's not the achilles. Lots of stretching/foam rolling on the cards for you then?

JF50 wrote (see)

Alan_B wrote (see)

15West wrote (see)

I have definately got better at running long runs without fuel and water...I think it's something your body gets used to. It's a good idea to practice taking on any sports drink or gel that you will be consuming on race day though.

 

Yeah I would agree, both have benefits, you just need to find a balance. Long runs (18+ miles) without fuel must benefit your endurance but on the flip side they must also take a lot longer to recover from. It's important to practice race conditions (i.e MP runs, wearing the clothing, fuel etc.) so that there's no surprises on the day.

I agree Alan, though I am hoping not to have to wear two under layers, water proof top, leggings, hat and gloves on the day

Ha ha fair point. Although..

Two under layers?? It's not that cold!

Alan_B wrote (see)

Literatin - Elbow to the bottom - OUCH!!!!! Definitely the most painful point of the sports massage! But good news that it's not the achilles. Lots of stretching/foam rolling on the cards for you then?

 

Indeed. He taught me some lovely new stretches, too. Hope your leg stays pain-free.