P + D training for VLM 2013

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07/02/2013 at 10:36

Feb 17 - Mennania - Wrexham half - Sub 1:24
Mar 24 - 15West - Wilmslow half - Sub 1:27 (not sure whether to race or practice MP)
April 14 - Tenjiso, jr2408 - Brighton - Sub 4.00 
April 21 - Keir - VLM - Sub 2.50 
April 21 - 15West, No Pain -VLM - Sub 2.55 
April 21 - Mennania, Mark 1981, Al runs, Surrey Runner, Chris J77 - VLM-Sub 3.00 
April 21 - Stutyr, Literatin - VLM - Sub 3:15 
April 21 - chick - Hamburg mara - Sub 3:25 
April 21 - ZiggyThe Spider - VLM - Sub 3:30 (May 26 - Edinburgh - Sub 3:15)
April 21 - Night Nurse - VLM - Sub 3.40
April 21 - JF50 - VLM - Sub 3.45
April 21 - Go Caz VLM Sub 3.50 
April 21 - Fiona J - VLM - Sub 4:00 
April 21 - Pottermiss - VLM - Sub 4.10 (well why not!)

April 28 - Agent Ginger - Manchester Mara - Sub 03:57:06

April 28 - Craig - Sub 3

April 28 - HeOw - Sub 3:45

Edited: 07/02/2013 at 10:36
07/02/2013 at 10:37

What do people wear on their feet. I wear Brooks Adrenaline GTS (2e) trainers - but thinking of getting some lighter trainers for racing shorter distances....just not sure what?!?

07/02/2013 at 11:08

Hi guys/girls.

Just discovered this thread.

Im currently following the 18 week / 55 mile plan for the manchester Marathon. Finding it quite heavy compared to what im used too. but so far managed every session, even with the snow

Manchester will be my 3rd Marathon, and my pb so far is 3:27

Has anyone followed this plan religiously and had good results from it? I'm aiming for a sub 3:15.

Im booked into a half marathon (stafford) 6 weeks before the manchester. should give me a good indication as to what ill be capable of in manchester.

Ive just ordered the P&D book online, as i found the 18/55 plan online,


07/02/2013 at 11:10

Morning all, ran my 10 mile LT this morning, 6 at the LT pace.  Definitely the toughest runs for me, think 20 milers are easier.  The faster 6 were at 7.43 average which is just about right for me but included one mile much too fast, one much slower because of icy roads and traffic, just couldn't get a rythm.  The final 3 miles I jogged back felt great helped by my smugness.

15w it's Nike Triax for me on the roads, used them for years.  I use Nike Free on my treadmill and they are light.

Enjoy the day all, and welcome Craig.

07/02/2013 at 11:47
Re pace. For me it just seems like too much of a leap of faith to do the majority of miles in training at near 8 min pace and then expect to deliver 6.40 pace on the day. I certainly wouldn't advocate running constantly fast, but for me progressive sessions let me know that I know what near race pace is like (and achievable). Maybe it's a mental thing, and I need to have more faith in the training.

As for shoes I have recently built up a few so I can alternate. Long runs are done in mizuno wave precision 13s. Not in love with them yet. Sessions are done in mizuno wave mushas. They are like slippers and hoped they would become my marathon shoe. But so far nothing can rival my love affair with the Adidas adizer adios. It's my go to shoe for anything from long runs to races to speed work. I think they will be my marathon shoe by the looks of it too.

Bring on the shoe porn (what has my life come to?! ).
07/02/2013 at 11:48

Hello Jedwards and welcome. I followed the 55-70 for the first time last summer for Chester in the autumn and got a PB by about 15 minutes and went sub3 - so I reckon plan worked pretty well for me. I did follow the plan very closely too - don't think I missed one session except had to swap some of the saturday tune ups with either a tempo run or a 5k park run. The key is to follow the plan - but if you feel a niggle and you're worried about potential issue it's best to miss some of the recovery runs and general aerobic ones, the key sessions are the long runs and faster paced sessions.

07/02/2013 at 11:49

Welcome Jedwards - theres a lot to learn on this thread, and some of it even involves running!

Hi Mark - forgot to answer your questions - Wrexham half - I am hoping to PB with a sub 1.24 (currently 1,24.48  - 2 weeks after vlm in chester) but am uncertain if I am in the shape to. On this race last year I delivered a (then) pb of 1.28.48 and I know I am better trained now than I was then - so i suppose A race is sub 1.24 and b race is better than last years race for same effort.  Lets see what tonights LT brings as a marker

15 w - Current shoes are asics 1170 - previously 2160s. If you get the lighter shoes you know you will be racing Wilmslow.

Good effort today JF50.

07/02/2013 at 12:46

Welcome also Jedwards, glad to have another Manchester racer on board!

JF50 - I ran 6 miles on Monday at LT - my splits were average of around 7:35 so you and I are similarly paced.  

Mennania - I do feel ready (as of today!) for Wrexham but ask me next Saturday and the answer will be NO!  I used to live near Ruabon, did a lot of my running around and up to Wrexham town centre a few years back.  

Chris - If you are only running a few miles in the MLR then you will probably be fine - If you were telling us that you were running your LSR at race pace, then I think you know yourself, that would be a bad idea!  I was on the Chester thread last year and was told by some very very good runners that I was making an error by running near race pace but because my race pace was not "fast", I thought it would be ok, however, I wasn't!  But you are only throwing some more in on MLR so it is about trail and error and seeing what suits you.  Some people can do progressive runs like you, I know I could without injury but I am definitely wanting to try to stick to the ethos of the plan which is to keep every other run (bar tempo) easy paced because I have tried 2 marathons doing it with more race pace miles in and really, it didn't work.  However, you know your body best and like you say, a lot of it is mental. I do reckon you could trust just sticking to the long runs with race pace miles in and you would be fine! 

15W - I wear Brooks Glycerin but I bought Adidas Adizero Tempo and now moved on to Adizero Feather but prefer the Tempo (not racing flats, I ain't fast enough!) for tempo runs and races as the Brooks are cart horses and I felt they were too heavy for me to do my faster paces in.  I would definitely go for a lighter trainer for your faster runs, they really do make a difference.  Adidas are leaders I find in light shoes, pretty unbeatable.  If they are good enough for Olympians... 

NN - great run with club!

Edited: 07/02/2013 at 12:47
07/02/2013 at 12:51

Re trainers, I am currently looking at the Nike Flyknit ad on this website which is all over it.  Hmm, I am a tad dubious about these knitted shoe and they are bloody expensive.  I need to replace mine soon and I have only had them since end of October.  How long do you all get out of yours?  I get around 400-450 miles tops.  Sometimes have to change them around 350 miles. 

07/02/2013 at 12:53

Bogged down at work yesterday so I missed a lot of twatty Pilates on here

Well done HeOw getting that 11 miler in. Am in the same boat - LSR to do on Sunday with 10 @ MP  and dreading it .

15W: the biro on the wall just reminded me why I don't have kids

JF50: nice to see someone else run at stupid o'clock. My MLR was done at 4:20 am today (got up at 4 but needed 20 mins to wake up & get ready ).

mark1981: great LT running - you are on the right track when they start to feel easier

Well dones to all chalking their MLRs off. Is it just me (12 week schedule) that has to do two of them this week (13 and 14 miles ? I don't have an LT run though - there's one next week.

Lit: stormin MLR last night!! Deffo back on track!!

Surrey Runner wrote (see)
HeOw I slipped a few miles during the snow and felt guilty.  I feel guilty about taking the rest days.  Until I started my current contract two weeks ago I was doing a gym session on the rest days.  And bleeding nipples from running aren't too bad.  Doing 21 miles in compression tights without vasaline is just a world of embarrising pain.


HeOw wrote (see)

I am definitely one on my own, LT sessions are my favourites.  I have to reign myself in on them and stop myself doing them for longer! 


I'm beginning to question your sanity, HeOw . LT runs are the work of the divil  they suck! 

HeOw wrote (see)

Chris, I used to run my MLR run like that (albeit it slower than you) - I used to get told off too.  I would start easy and then ramp up to near 10k pace final mile.  

10 k pace  . The only time I ever to 10k pace is in a 10k race!  

15West wrote (see)

What do people wear on their feet. I wear Brooks Adrenaline GTS (2e) trainers - but thinking of getting some lighter trainers for racing shorter distances....just not sure what?!?


Saucony Kinvaras for normal running and Fastwitches for speedier stuff. Very light, both of them although none are proper racing flats. My dodgy biomechanics wouldn't tolerate flats.  

welcome Craig T and Jedward: P&D saw me getting from 3:54 to 3:38 to 3:29 and hopefully to 3:15 one fine day. I'm an old hag though, so potential for improvement is somewhat limited.

Edited: 07/02/2013 at 12:55
07/02/2013 at 12:59

I used to do 3 milers at 10k pace all the time Chickadee!  Don't anymore though...  Kind of learned no need to as I ain't training for a 10k! 

07/02/2013 at 13:23
I've been looking at those Nike Flyknit racers, just ??120 a pair seems a little on the steep side, when I can get 2 pairs of Fastwitch and a pair of Kinvaras for the same price. I'm also in for Wrexham next week, targeting around 80 minutes, hoping with the course I should be able to give it a good shot.
07/02/2013 at 13:28

I am a total cheapskate and have been doing all my road running in Brooks Defyance 3s, which are currently £34.99 a pair. Just ordered a second pair for when these ones wear out. I used to have the 5s (which I bought full price) and got the 3s because I thought they'd do a similar job for much cheaper, but they're actually even  better because wider at the front (I like having toenails).

Skipped today's recovery run so as not to plunge back into a full-mileage week, but will do my LT run early tomorrow. Slightly dreading it as I always worry I won't be able to hit the pace.

07/02/2013 at 13:44

I was thinking about the adidas adizero range as they do get a lot of good reviews - but I have fairly wide feet and not sure if they will be good for me. I guess I'm going to have to go in a running shop, get my gait analysed (never done it) and get some advice, and then inevitably buy from them instead of picking up some bargain online! I have been wearing the Brooks GTS's for a few years now and find them very comfy (they have 2e for wider feet) and have had no issues with them apart from the odd toenail falling out - but after this marathon think I'm going to have a go at shorter distances (10k and half) for the rest of the year so maybe I should get something a bit lighter/faster blah blag waffle waffle.


07/02/2013 at 14:01

Can't reccomend the Adizero Adios enough 15W. An absolute great trainer for speed that hold up to longer stuff too. I still haven't worked out how something so light can feel so cushioned. Hey if its good enough for Haile then who are we to argue?! They are a bit narrower than normal trainers, but not that bad. I up sized half a size and haven't had any problems. You can always order them online and just send them back if they dont fit.

07/02/2013 at 14:06


Sometimes you just get a vision from something somebody says.  No nails missing on this one

07/02/2013 at 14:11
I'm wearing Nike Pegasus shoes at the moment which I think are pretty good.

Used to love Mizuno wave riders until they started messing about with the design.

As for races I'm at the Blackpool half on the 24th of this month and that'll be it until London apart from maybes couple of park runs.
07/02/2013 at 14:14

15w - Up & running (they have one in chester now) do a no pressure gait analysis - Had mine done at their stores butbthey didnt have my size in what they recommended so went to the asics store at cheshire oaks and picked up a pair for £45.

07/02/2013 at 14:14

Asics 2160s at the mo, have followed the series for years withour any problems so wont be changing, I worry about changing shoes, for me there is no need...racing flats are great if you are very light and quick..I am neither..

Chick welcome back and dont call yourself a old hag...I am sure you are not ...and if you are there is no hope for this even older hag !!

JF50 nice pace for the LT 

5 easy for me today

Swapping my weekend runs about LSR tomorrow and the 11 on Sunday, wont be doing the LT bit though as I have a 10 mile race on the 17th, that will be my LT

07/02/2013 at 14:26

bought some Brooks Ghost 5 shoes about 2 weeks ago. Did 16miles in them last weekend, seemed to hold up quite well, so i think they're broken in well. Don't feel much different to my previous Saucony proGrid (or whatever they were called)

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