P + D training for VLM 2013

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07/02/2013 at 18:11
I was a size 5 pre kids but the little shits :-P made my feet stretch to a 6. I buy a 7 in trainers though. 5ft 6in height wise. Even though I am smallest size bodily I've been since before I had kids (size 8) I weigh as much as I did when I was a size 10, must be the muscle.
07/02/2013 at 18:27

Well we are not talking dress size !! but I am NOT a size 8.. I do weigh the same as I did at 20 though  and not given into middle age spread...yet 

Looks looks like the weather is quite nice here for tomorrow so shall get that 20 done..rain for the rest of the weekend so glad I made the change to this weeks schedule.

Edited: 07/02/2013 at 18:35
07/02/2013 at 20:04

Hi guys, remember me?  I've had a lot of problems which I'm trying to work through, and running has been difficult. Nonetheless, I'm trying to get back on track because the running helps me to focus on something positive.

Everything was fine with the P&D schedule up until the end of the seventh week, culminating in an 18m LR and fifty miles for the week. Things started to go wrong in the week marked as 10 weeks to goal.

Tuesday 7m recovery + Speed was completed as scheduled.  

Wednesday 12m MLR was a terrible run off the back of consecutive nights with less than three hours sleep, but I somehow got through it.

Thursday was a rest day, and I needed it.

Friday, I could barely face a run, never mind 10m LT, so I replaced it with a straight three miles at LT pace.

Saturday I did 4m recovery instead of the scheduled 5m.

Sunday was scheduled for 20m, but I was still too tired, so I replaced it with 13m MLR. My pace was all over the place, due to poor concentration. It could have been worse, though.

It was a minor miracle that I completed 39m of the original scheduled 54m for the week.

This week I have been making some progress with some problems, so feeling a bit better and now gradually getting more normal sleep. Monday was a rest day, and I then followed this with an extra rest day on Tuesday (scheduled 6m recovery). I actually managed to concentrate on the running for it's own sake again for yesterday's 14m MLR. It was 'kin hard work in that vicious biting wind, but I felt great for having completed it and slept well last night! I've completed today's scheduled 6m recovery run.  

So, not totally disastrous, given that I felt like giving it all up at one point.  I'm trying to decide what to do about the remainder of the week. I was thinking I might replace the scheduled 16m w/ 12m@MP, with my missing 20m LR, perhaps bump the MP run back into the following scheduled recovery week. Or maybe get some MP miles in during next week, if I feel up to it.

I'm going to have to do my LR on Saturday this week, so I'll probably slip in a recovery run tomorrow and another short recovery on Sunday in order to maintain reasonable mileage.

Has anybody got any tips on how to proceed? Is it better to get the 20m LR done, rather than forget it and do the 16m MPR? I guess I don't really want to rely on only two 20m runs in my program.

07/02/2013 at 20:16

Ten we did wonder what had happened to you..I think it was 15w that mentioned your absence a couple of days ago.

7 weeks without a sessions missed is damn good going ...don't beat yourself up, very few of us will get through without missing a session or even many !! family work, illness it all gets in the way,

Personally ..and other may disagree I would do the 20 LSR and skip the 16mp..you can fit some mp miles in during any MLR ...

07/02/2013 at 20:57

Wow lots of reading back, brooks flats for me for races and tempo runs.

Some great running going on not long now before we start to add the polish tempos and intervals. I was up and out just after 5:20 this morning for 8 miles was to do a recovery run tonight but gave it a miss legs a bit heavy and dont want to over cook it at this point.

Some great running going on keep it going peeps. 

07/02/2013 at 21:02
Ha ha NN - you'll still piss all over me time wise at the marathon so size 8 or 18, I'll still wanna be you!

Ten - oh my lovely, I hope you're ok and it sounds like you've had a shite couple of weeks. I too have missed a few key long runs past 2 weeks and I am adding 20 tomorrow rather than do 18, I feel strong enough and feel it will give me more benefits than doing an 16-18. If I were you and you feel strong enough, do a very easy 20 and if come mile 13-14 you feel good, throw MRP miles in for the next 5-6 miles. Don't despair - as a fellow mum, I know how tough it is and we can't keep up with the big boys re pace and mileage but we can bloody do ourselves proud (and our kids!). Just do what you can, when you can. I've gone from the 55-70 to the sub 55 and I am even dropping recovery runs from that so I am fresh enough for my key sessions. We have to be realistic.
07/02/2013 at 22:07
Quick visit.

NN - I wear size 5 asics nimbus and I'm 5'7". So I think I've probably got the smallest feet for my size. I wear Adidas adizero tempos for racing up to hm and they definitely are lighter. I call them my "go faster shoes". You should try something lighter if I do cos I'm even slower.
07/02/2013 at 22:20

Wow NP - 5.30 that's hardcore. I hate mornings - all respect to you for that.

Ten - I don't think I can put it any better than the ladies. I've not done a marathon programme before but I'm soon realising that you just have to do what you can when you can and not worry when you can't. There are always going to be times when life, and more important things get in the way. I'd take Heow's advice above. I think dropping recovery runs and focussing on key sessions is probably for the best. I mean its not like we are elite athletes and actually do nothing on our non running days (Oh how nice would be it be to be paid to sleep on recovery days bythe way!). I'm pretty sure that most of us lead hectic lives that mean we are doing loads on our non running days and staying pretty active anyway. I hope things resolve themselves and you are back on track.

Just got back from a killer 11 miles with 6 at tempo. Overcooked the 4th mile a bit and strayed into 10k pace, but overall very pleasing. Splits for the tempo miles: 6.05; 5.55; 6.00; 5.50; 6.00; and 5.58.

Legs are completely smashed now though. Calves were tight before going out and even tighter now. A couple of very easy runs in store I think before Sundays long run (which will also be easy pace). I really need to get out and do some races. I have just broken my 10k P.B in a training run by some considerable margin doing a tempo run! Madness.

07/02/2013 at 23:01

Just five miles recvoery for me tonight.  I wear Newtons Gravities.  They are fairly light and promote a forefoot strike.

07/02/2013 at 23:41
I find Adizero Tempos great for when I want a lighter shoe that still offers stability. I did my last marathon in them but I'm not sure I'd do that again!
Tenjiso - I would do the 20 mile run. I think the distance is more important than the MP. I know it is good to do, but I think some of the MP runs on the schedule are unrealistically long - for me anyway! Did 12 miles MLR tonight in the rain with a couple of MP thrown in.
08/02/2013 at 07:40

FFS I wish as usual I hadn't asked..  Fiona that's really small for someone of 5.7, I feel like a cart horse..lol.. and I am deffo looking at some fast shoes next week and wear them for my races leading up to VLM,

Caz why wouldnt you wear those shoes for a marathon ? did you suffer ? and I agree about the distance of the MP runs when I got my pb the last time I followed this schedule I actually skipped all the mp sessions  I found them too tough on tired legs I just added some mp miles to the end of some mlrs 

thanks for the advice everyone re the shoes.. I really didn't consider they would make much difference 

Heow..I am not a size  a 8 but thankfully not an 18 either.., I know if I lost maybe 5-7 lbs I would knock some minutes off my races but I cba to diet  I am bloody starving all the time at the moment..

NP impressive early start as for the interval sessions I am considering starting mine a week early and doing a track session on Monday with my club, they are doing 1k reps so its a pretty useful session, and it will wake my legs up ready for next weeks 10 mile race.

Just had brekky and mentally preparing myself for that 20 ...then it will be back to bed for the rest of the day as working tonight 

Edited: 08/02/2013 at 07:41
08/02/2013 at 08:22

Morning all, treadmill run this morning at 5.20am, 5 miles recovery, lovely and controlled and a nice soft surface to run on, another episode of The Wire bites the dust.

Cold here this morning and I've just seen a bit of snow falling, will be really welcome for my 20 miler tomorrow

Reading back doesn't seem like many of you wear Nike.

Ten I would go for the 20 miler and like others say fit some MP miles in on some of the other runs.  Hope everything gets sorted and the pressure eases.

08/02/2013 at 08:28

Morning all. Good running everyone. That is an impressive tempo run Chris - maybe on the slightly fast side of LT pace if targetting a sub 3 though - unless your actually planning something a bit faster!

Ten - sorry about your rough week ...I wouldn't try and catch up or switch things round or anything, just carry on with the schedule.

11mi with 6mi at LT today, which for me will be somewhere between 6.15 and 6.25 (hopefully!). Feeling very tired as had a crap night's sleep, not due to work or kids or anything, just foolishly had a couple of stong coffees after dinner last night. How silly.

08/02/2013 at 09:12
Good luck on the LT 15W. We don't have to do one for a whole now so good to get it over with. It's probably the session I dread the most. Mine was a bit on the fast side. Pacing of the lt is a constant battle. You have to work hard to get the pace up but then are conscious not to overcook it and have to hold back a bit and not stray into 10k effort. It's probably the pace that I find hardest to dial into.

Was dreading how the legs would be feeling today. But so far so good. It must have been the recovery red wine last night that worked its magic. Am even tempted to do a park run tomorrow if it's not raining.

It's nearly the weekend!
08/02/2013 at 09:14

Speedy stuff Chris - did the same session last night but was at an average of 6.21mm for the tempo bits and around 7 for the whole run with 800ft of elevation which seems to be the norm.

Nice morning jog JF50.

A 6 mile recovery round the walls of \chester beckons for me late on.

08/02/2013 at 09:41

Thanks Mennania, yes it was very pleasant, it's actually a great way to catch up on box sets.  But even with only 5 miles there is still a boredom factor on a treadmill, even when watching a quite addictive series, but at the same time it is very gentle on your legs so overall, very nice.  Enjoy the run round Chester. 

Great running Chris, definitely a tough run with that many miles at LT, or 10k

NN hope your 20 miler goes well

15w, I bet it's a problem by midday trying to stay awake, another coffee perhaps!

08/02/2013 at 09:43
I didn't have the elevation to contend with thankfully. All slightly downhill for me which probably distorts the true pace a little bit.
08/02/2013 at 09:58

11.5 miles with 6 LT done this morning. I slightly dread these sessions and found the whole thing really hard, mentally as well as physically. I spent most of it thinking I wouldn't manage the whole thing (e.g. pretending that I thought it would be okay to just skip the last LT mile cos I missed last week's, thinking about how much heavier my shoes are than everyone elses, etc.). But I did manage it, so now I feel smug.

Splits were: 8.39, 8.33, 8.34, 8.29, 6.36, 6.42, 6.49, 6.42, 6.48, 6.36, 8.12 (4.22 for the last half).

08/02/2013 at 10:05

Good to feel smug after that Lit, great LT, especially in those big shoes!

08/02/2013 at 10:06

Ten, I did wonder where you were as it nice seeing someone else at the same place in the schedule.  Probably no consolation, but I've struggled this week as well (due to a combination of tiredness & other external factors) and have ended missing the mid-week 14MLR and one of the 6m recoveries.  Its annoying as I've stuck to this schedule pretty well, but I'm not too concerned as I know I'm much fitter than when I started and will continue to improve by following the schedule.  My more relaxed approach is mainly due to 9 months out with a knee injury that meant I had to defer VLM last year - it does give you a different perspective on a few days of "lost" training 

If I was in your position, I'd be doing the 20 miler this week rather than the 16M with 12@ MP.  Two reasons: the sub 55 mile plan does seem a bit light on "long" runs and based on your previous posts you were comfortably hitting the pace targets. Therefore, I think you'd benefit from the endurance test rather than the speed test.

NN, I was a long time user of Asics 2000 series shoes and bought a pair of Asics DS Trainers on a whim as they are marketed as a lighter version of the 2000 series.  The DS Trainers were a revelation and my 2000 series just felt slow and unresponsive afterwards.  If you can find a pair in the sales then they're definitely worth a try.   I've now converted to lighter, less padded shoes for all runs but the DS Trainers are probably still my favourite trainers (and I'm no race-whippet like NP et al ).   


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