P&D Autumn Marathon Training Thread

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06/05/2013 at 19:03

Thanks Literatin. I was surprised that GA runs were as slow as they are. Anything 10 minutes or more per mile always feels like a jog to me, so I didn't think any session other than the long run would be 10+. I'm fine with these paces if they are in line with the plan though!

To be honest, I'd say that what I did differently for my last two marathons was not train properly! I did three runs per week, not many long runs, only one longer than 18 miles, and I never did any runs slower than 10 minute miles. I'm determined to train properly this time though.

06/05/2013 at 19:07

Adam- no wonder you struggled to do a sub 4. If you use P&D you should have no problems based on your other times

06/05/2013 at 19:46

Ah yes, I see what you mean about the GA runs - I did the 55-70 programme and there weren't as many of them. I think it's because they use the term 'general aerobic' fairly loosely to describe any runs that are between about 7 and 10 miles, and obviously the lower-mileage plan is going to have more of those. If you get horribly bored of the slow pace I don't see why you couldn't just pretend they were MLRs.

And yes, as Fiona says, 'not training properly' will probably be why you didn't break 4 hours!

06/05/2013 at 19:56
Adam, I've just completed my second marathon but my first time following 55/18. I was aiming for 3.49 but managed to get 3.39.

I did VO2 at 7mm, LT 7.50mm, MP 8.45 (but my HM & 10k bests are not as quick as yours, so I would say go with what you've indicated for them).

All of the others (LSR, MLR and GA) I did between 9mm - 9.30mm...but most were no slower than 9.15. This was a bit quicker than the recommended paces but I found it very difficult going as slowly as suggested, so I just did these sessions at what I felt comfortable at. I know everyone is different but I didn't find I was any more fatigued running at a slightly quicker pace and I recovered quickly.
I didn't bother with the recovery runs, I cross trained.
Edited: 06/05/2013 at 20:10
07/05/2013 at 09:31
AdamJBristol wrote (see)

Hi all, I'm about to start a P&D training schedule (18/55) and was wondering what you think of the following paces. Do they seem about right for someone looking to run 9 minute miles for the marathon?

VO 06:46 LT 07:30 MP 09:00 GA 10:21 MLR 10:48 to 09:54 LR 10:48 to 09:54  REC 10:30   Some of these do seem quite slow to me (PBs below) and the calculators suggest that I should be able to run a much quicker marathon that's 4 hours, but I'm more comfortable aiming for 4 hours for now (I've tried twice and never managed better than 4:10).   10k: 44:07 HM: 01:39:50 M: 04:10:02

Adam your HM time is pretty similar to mine so I would say for sure if you  follow the programme I would confidently say you will duck well under 4.  I ran a HM in March in 1.38.20 and VLM in 3.33.55

07/05/2013 at 12:57

First GA run crossed off - and my first 4.30am getup of this training schedule! Need to get used to those as I reckon I'll need to do it at least once a week for the next few months.  Was aiming for LSR pace but sped up over the last few miles to roughly MP. I'll see how knackered I feel later on today and the rest of this week.....!

07/05/2013 at 13:00

Would be interested in hearing how you feel later on acp.  When I start the schedule I've a feeling a couple of runs may need to be done at 5am, although I think I'll just stick to the recovery runs at that time of day....followed by some very strong coffee

07/05/2013 at 13:13

I have awoken from my post Manchester marathon slumber and am ripping up the P&D reverse taper and doing it my own way.  Hat's off to those of you who manage to keep to another plan for 5 weeks AFTER marathon but no way could I.  

Adam, you should be smashing sub 4 with your other times, it is all about the training though. 

07/05/2013 at 13:25

Men - you're the Man ! Thanks.

Shazmo - "managed" seem tame for 10 mins jump. Well done.

There are loads of people on this thread, great advice a few pages back about not attacking the plan on day 1.  Week 1 (18/55) has a MLR of 12, so be prepared.

Buying the book doesn't guarentee a great performance, however the 800 miles of training in the 18/55 plan should give anyone a solid base. Scary but exciting.



07/05/2013 at 14:15

Tiny Runner - I usually run between 5 and 5.30 so it's not that much earlier but any time starting with a '4' just seems so much earlier.  

09/05/2013 at 10:09

Where is everybody....?! Did I say something...?!

Second GA run this morning. Should have included strides but not entirely happy with the whole 'stride' thing so gave those a miss! Decided to run to HR rather than pace and ended up doing 9.45m/m average which is pretty much MP. Not quite sure what this means!

09/05/2013 at 10:21

Hello acp.....it may be fairly quiet on here until people start following the schedules in June. I've just been plodding about, trying to build up to about 50 miles a week by end of May. Got a bit of an ache/niggle in my right leg, quads/glutes aching, think maybe my ITB band a bit tight so been ironing it out with a roller.

Also have gone and purchased some lightweight shoes - found some adios 2's in wide fit on adidas website so have bought them, still feel a bit tight so not sure whether to keep or send back yet.....

09/05/2013 at 10:26

Oh acp you thread killer .  As 15West said, most of us won't be starting the plans until June (mine begins on 3rd June ).  I've got a few shorter distance races over May and just gradually increasing my mileage.

I'm also going to try and start doing some of the core strength and resistance work as described in P&D.  If I start it now, hopefully I'll be able to continue with it once the plan starts.

09/05/2013 at 10:33

acp - I think we all stormed off in a (pre-emptive) huff when we began to suspect you didn't like strides.

Tiny - I totally believe in core work now - did a 5 mile race yesterday and on the harder bits (into bastard headwind) I could feel all my stomach muscles complaining even though I actually am quite strong there. It reminds you you are using them when running even though you don't always notice it.

09/05/2013 at 10:56

Well I'm no stranger to talking to myself so nothing new there then!

New mantra - must do core work!

Lit - just to make me feel really slow and snail-like tell us your time for the 5 mile race...?!

09/05/2013 at 11:07

Oh all right. 32:20 but it was really windy.

09/05/2013 at 11:11

I ran 3:01 off the 18week 55-70 in October last year and will follow the same plan this year with a little modification:

For the first six weeks (mesocycle 1, endurance) I'll make the Long Runs 20miles, but still with the Marathon Pace elements, where stipulated in the plan.

Looking to go Sub-3 for the first time on the Jersey Marathon 6th October.

Edited: 09/05/2013 at 11:27
09/05/2013 at 11:34

Great time Lit!  I'd love to run 5 miles in a time starting with 3x.xx....! And why does a tail wind never give you the same advantage in time as a head wind gives you a disadvantage?! I hate the wind!  

09/05/2013 at 13:21

Nothing like a bit of a headwind to make you feel like you're going to vomit. Looking at the splits I think the tailwind did help a bit (on miles 1 and 4) but, as you say, not to the same extent.

09/05/2013 at 14:19

Oh good another nice thread to lurk on

No autum Mara for me, I'm concentrating on knocking the bejaysus out of my HM time before I embark on the P&D "Sub 4 or Die" regime for next spring.

Still chuckling at whoever said "Smack the arse out of P&D" a few pages back.

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