P&D Autumn Marathon Training Thread

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02/05/2013 at 11:45

Don't worry Shazmo, I 'know' 15W from other forums! He pops up all over the place. I even spotted him in person at Chester last year!

15W - I'm following the P&D 55 mile schedule but my plan was to do the first 4 weeks twice to kind of give me an insurance policy against falling ill (ha,ha!) or getting injured. Then I've also got a week off halfway through because I'll be sunning myself (hopefully!) in Italy and didn't want the pressure of sticking to the plan even though I hope to do some running out there. Pretty much my whole year so far has been geared towards training for Chester so if I don't achieve my 'soft' target of getting under 4:30 I'm never doing another marathon again! You heard it here first!

02/05/2013 at 11:47

Acp - Missed a seesion already?- you are totally screwed As HeOw told me once 'you will be lucky to get past the first drinks station'

If I remember right the second most important run was a progressive 22.4 with 8 at mp and 2 at HMP to finish. The MOST important run is the first 9 mile GA

02/05/2013 at 11:49

Whereas the last VO2 session with the mile repeats is totally insignificant and, in fact, probably damaging to your marathon goals.

02/05/2013 at 11:57

And I thought it was the 4M recovery run I did yesterday which was going to be the crucial factor in marathon running success. Godammit!!  You're right - I'm screwed!

02/05/2013 at 12:06

Indeed Lit and ACP - Moreover I might just post up my training history for VLM as I have saved all of you a lit of headbending by only running the important bits of P&D. WHilst some of you followed P&D so tightly restraining orders had to be issued I sort of casually bumped into it once in a while.

02/05/2013 at 12:44

Menn, we are cut form the same cloth. I even invented a new version of P+D for road and fell running....that was a challenge doing MP runs on routes with 1000m of ascent    

Yes ACP, our 15w is the forum floozy, spreading his love about. I too the pleasure of his company for about one second x three on Sunday. I had high hopes for our future, but apparently he's betrothed to HeOw 

02/05/2013 at 12:48

He's a tart!

02/05/2013 at 12:57

Shazmo - I also did a 22 miler at faster than marathon pace . As it happens it was marathon pace

Lisa - I just ignored that bit about carbs and did what I always do.

15W - yes porridge is low GI

ACP - you might find you get terrible plan fatigue if you repeat 4 weeks.  I'd go for 1 or 2 max.  As for getting up at 4:30. I did those sorts of runs at night as I couldn't face 4:30. 5:30 was bad enough.

02/05/2013 at 13:17

Fiona - I think I am just being overly cautious regarding the extra weeks because both my previous marathon attempts have been scuppered by injury (training with PF for Manchester last year) and illness (flu while training for Chester last year). But I will take on board your advice. Looks like the rest of this week is scuppered anyway with this crappy cold so I'm down to 3 weeks already!!

Do you think you can do too many long runs during marathon training or is there no such thing as 'too many'?

02/05/2013 at 13:20

Yes, it is true. I am a tart. Shazmo, I'm all yours.

ACP - that sounds like a pretty good plan.

I am at the moment trying to be all clever and come up with my own schedule...might give up in a bit.

Seeing as it's such lovely weather I thought I'd do a bit of cross training in the gym today. Went on some of the weight machine thingys for the legs as read recently that good idea to build up leg strength in first part of marathon training schedule, and then do more core stuff for latter part of schedule.

02/05/2013 at 13:20

acp, don't tell anyone, but I skipped just over a week of the plan due to injury and then crossed it out of the book and went on to the next one when I was recovered. It was far enough out from the marathon that it didn't seem to make any difference.

02/05/2013 at 13:28

Lit, your secret is safe with me!

02/05/2013 at 13:46

ACP - in answer to your question about long runs I think more the merrier for long runs, but you need to be aware of a higher risk of injury from all the mileage and also negating your other key sessions from being knackered. This is why P&D slowly builds up the mileage so you reach the magic 20mi mark in the 2nd mesocycle; and also why every 3rd week or so the long run distance is reduced (sometimes compensated by adding some MP miles in there).

Your body adapts to all this high mileage and once those adaptions have been made, continuosly running 20 mile every week is not as likely to cause injury, but also you're not going to gain as much...so I think if get to that state you need to spice it up a bit by adding MP miles and fartlek sort've stuff to the long run. I say this as I am almost at this level as this is my 5th marathon in a row with only about a month or so between training cycles...so my endurance is pretty good, just need to add some speed.

Waffle waffle blah blah.

Edited: 02/05/2013 at 13:47
02/05/2013 at 13:49

I think I should share my good news, spoken to the VLM office and I can apply for GFA for 2014.  Ok I know it's in an old farts category but it's still GFA

I thank P & D for getting me to a  time similar to the one I ran 5 years ago.  If I look at a HM I ran last September before I started the programme my time was 1.44.54 and it was a pretty flat course.  The HM I ran in March, on a slightly more hilly course, was 1.38.20.  Looking at heart rates I was running much more efficiently in March as well.

Thanks of course to all of you for advice, support, general cajoling and plenty of piss taking.

02/05/2013 at 14:08

The reason I asked 15W is because I'm already upto 16 miles for my long run of which I've done 5 since the start of March and the P&D long runs start at 13miles.

So when I've put my plan together I get to 20 miles quite early on and I was a bit worried that then I'd got too many long runs in the plan. My CV response is great (breathing steady and HR within the right zone) but I still find the legs and the rest of my body feel the miles. I guess this will get better as my body gets used to the mileage or am I just too old and knackered to start with?!

02/05/2013 at 14:11

Sounds like you have a good base already ACP so starting on the 20 miles earlier is no bad thing...and yes your body will adapt the more you do so your legs etc should get used to it and ache less. So, have you taken the 55 P&D plan and just added distance to the long runs?

Edited: 02/05/2013 at 14:12
02/05/2013 at 14:18

Pretty much yes! To be honest I've been messing about with it for so long that I have to keep checking 'my' plan against the P&D one to make sure it's still the same if you see what I mean! And yes, the only thing that I've really changed is the distance of the long runs. And swapped a few sessions around depending on planned races etc

02/05/2013 at 18:36

+1 for the more the merrier 20 milers ACP - If you have a good base it will bode well as you can go every other week and give yourself a break. You also wont need to stress about rescheduling your 20s to fit in tune up races. A min of 5 x 20 is recommended but next mara campaign I am going to get 7 or 8 in over the 16 weeks subject to starting from a good base. There are 3 good sessions a week on the plan - the rest are mileage fillers.

02/05/2013 at 19:37
Tiny Runner 85 wrote (see)

Snap! And I just love crossing out a session after I've completed it. It's the little things in life

Soooo glad its not just me,  I currently have numerous plans on my fridge with ticks crosses and such covering them. FFS I really need a life!!

Good to hear that others manage on a low(ish) carb diet. I lost a load of weight following the paleo way of eating and really feel better as a result so plan on sticking to that mostly.


02/05/2013 at 20:08

Marathon paced runs, to me were the key.  Good confidence boosters.

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