POSE--2 months later - Training

lucrece

13/01/2005 at 11:58

I wasn't sure if I should post this in health & injury, but figured I'd get the attention of more POSE runners this way.

I did the clinic in October and have been running POSE since (or trying to!). The good news is that my calves have adapted and my plantar fasciitis has gone. But, my ankles are very sore and I have the beginnings of shin splints. Can anyone who has switched to POSE offer advice? I am training for FLM and am a bit concerned. Thanks.

Imaginary Friend

13/01/2005 at 12:42

lucrece - i've had a similar experience. i have changed from heel-to-toe to fore-foot striking over the last few months. i had a bit of shin splints last week, but rested for a few days and they went away. now i seem to have some tightness in the muscles in the centre of my lower legs (the left leg is worse, but the right leg isn't quite right either).

initially i had attributed the shin splints to over-ambitious building of mileage combined with some tempo running. now i wonder if the tightness was the cause. i have an appointment with a physio on monday, so hopefully this will give me some answers!

sorry not to be able to directly answer your question.

dave

Matt the Brum

13/01/2005 at 14:25

Same problem. Switched from heel to forefoot striking a couple of months ago. I'm getting slight shin splints in my left shin after hard road runs. Also been getting very stiff ankles and left achilles has been worryingly painful.
Someone suggested concentrating on pulling/lifting my left foot up earlier to solve achilles problem. Following last night's run I think it has worked.
I'm confused by the shin splints as there must be less impact going through my shins than before. Just try and get off road as much as poss, be easier when evenings are light.
Started swimming again this week and it has completely cleared my stiff ankle problem.

Highway Kind

13/01/2005 at 16:18

For the last 6 weeks I have had terrible problems with shin splints that have completely disrupted my training and left me feeling very gloomy.

I am thus a cautionary tale of someone who ignored the early signs and ran through the pain in a spectacularly stupid way by combining everything that could be done to overload the shins.

I will not list everything I did wrong but a couple of points that might be relevant:

1. Be gradual about hills. I suddenly introduced a number of steepish hills into my runs. This had two bad affects: the first was that I leant forward too much from my ankles; the second was the forces I had to absorb huge forces when breaking going down hill.

Although you may not be doing much hill work it could be that you are leaning forward too much

2. Be careful with shoes. I was experimenting with minimalist shoes at the time and have come away convinced that you need some cushioning and support when running on concrete. In particular be careful about arch support. H Streets have no arch support and it is the collapse of my left arch that has caused all my problems.

All I can really say is be careful, be gentle in your running and pay attention to the warning signs.

Good luck

Imaginary Friend

13/01/2005 at 16:57

Highway kind - i'm interested by your second point in particular. would you say that you are a pose-er/fore-foot striker or a heel-to-toe runner?

dave

lucrece

13/01/2005 at 17:34

thanks for all the feedback. matt, i am planning to do some swimming as part of marathon training, so that's good to know. and highway, i too am interested to know if you are striking with your forefoot.

as for hills, i am so paranoid about injuries that i am not doing hillwork yet. this is my first marathon and the increased mileage will be enough of a strain as it is. similarly, i have been tempted to join friends on longer runs and speedwork but am taking the cautionary approach.

anyway, i'm going to the osteopath tomorrow to get the shins checked out.

Highway Kind

13/01/2005 at 17:36

Dave

I am a forefoot runner - always have been.

I don't know how posey I am; though I take small strides land under my centre of gravity and lift my feet rather than push of.

I have always run in cushioned shoes but made the mistake of trying out H Streets, really just to see if they made any difference.

Moto if something ain't broke don't change it.

Matt the Brum

13/01/2005 at 17:43

I wouldn't advise avoiding hills. Rugged terrain and hills strengthen your legs and so help to prevent injury. Much better than the pounding and monotony of flat tarmac.
Hills don't have to put extra stress on legs, just relax.

Barnsley Runner

13/01/2005 at 17:47

Hmm, my achilles has been sore for a while. Shins sore as well.

High mileage, mostly tarmac, minimalist shoes.

Just niggles, not injuries just yet.

Highway Kind

13/01/2005 at 18:24

Matt

I wouuld agree. Hills are good if you are soft with them

My particular problems were more to do with overstretching from the ankles because of the shoes. The v low heel meant it was more of a stretch for my usual ball heel ball

The breaking downhill was a specific instance when the pavement ended to go under narrow bridge and I had to stop suddenly because of an oncoming car.

arhab

13/01/2005 at 20:25

I did the clinic in October too. I did have some issues with my feet, did have the sore calves, and all the stuff you can think of. However, most of these things I was convinced were due to wrong technique and not relaxing lower legs.
I think that shin pains are due to landing in front of GCM and/or active landing.

I worked hard on technique and form (still do) and each time after running I'd try to find trigger points (muscle knots) in my lower legs and feet and massage them. I found out that I had trigger points in my lower legs (in my flexor digitorum Longus to be precise) that were causing feet pains as well. These knots were mainly caused by not keeping the ankles relaxed. After I corrected my technique the pains went away.

Anyhow, I got rid of all pains and aches and sorenesses. During running I can feel when I lose form and am able to correct myself.

So, what I am saying is that you should probably have a good look at your form and technique. Maybe have Christine Chen take a look. Make sure you are relaxed while running (that's the hardest part) and as soon as you loose form, stop, do drills, and run again, etc.

Gr. Arhab

Chaos

14/01/2005 at 16:19

Good news about the Plantar Fasciitis going away lucrece.

I think arhab's got a good point in going back to doing drills when things seem to be getting unnecessarily sore & yep - keeping that ankle relaxed and almost floppy is hard, at least in concentration terms! counter-intuitive really, but combined with the feeling of pulling the foot up with the hamstring almost before you've landed, I hope it gets better eventually. I still sometimes stop completely and just run on the spot for 10 seconds focussing on the actual "pose" before tilting forward and carrying on. this seems to get the technique back quickly.

good luck!

nrg-b

14/01/2005 at 22:40

arhab: great post which I totally agree with. When I was converting to pose I was base-training with an hrm. The only way to stabilize the HR was to run in a completely relaxed form.

chaos: Now that I've resumed running do you have the time to ressurect the "Ministry of Funny Walks" at StJP? And any word from KJ?

;-))

Matt the Brum

17/01/2005 at 09:42

Arhab-"I think that shin pains are due to landing in front of GCM and/or active landing."
Wht do you mean by active landing?

lucrece

17/01/2005 at 10:26

i think he means focusing on landing rather than pulling the foot up with the hamstring.

i too have been doing base training at the same time as POSE and found them to be very compatible.

well, i went to the osteopath on friday and she recommended no running for a week while the shin splints heel. :( not what you want to hear during marathon training, but i will comply!

thanks again for all the great feedback.

arhab

17/01/2005 at 11:22

Hi Matt,

'Active landing' is a problem I have too. It means that you're not just pulling up and let the leg fall relaxed to the ground again using gravity, but that you actually kinda push your leg back to the ground.
The cause for me is a mental thing.My body is, let's say, afraid of falling so I tend to extend my legs to prevent me from doing that (this is what heelstrikers do). The results are landing in front of GCM and/or pushing the feet on the ground.

Do some hopping in place, pulling up the leg. If you hear a 'thump'-sound when your leg falls to the ground, you are probably actively landing/pushing your feet down. I once thought I was relaxing my legs, but during a clinic was made aware that I was really actively landing.

If you relax your legs when landing it feels like your trying to keep your feet from touching the ground. I thought I was using my muscles doing just that, but the contrary was the case... I had to relearn the feeling of relaxing muscles so to say...

Hope this helps,

Arhab

Matt the Brum

17/01/2005 at 11:38

Thanks for that. I'll think about it whilst running tonight.

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