Running over 20 miles in 1st marathon training

Just to put the cat among the pigeons! I ran the full 26.2 in training before my first marathon and have done it every year since.

Cougie - why would you want to plan your stops on a 20 miler or any training run? If you have to stop you are clearly running beyond your capability and shouldn't be doing that distance at that point in your training - surely?

When I do it, it is just part of a normal weeks training but I do do it a long time before the race. For London this is usually early Feb.

My "golden rule" is if you let it affect the rest of the weeks training then you shouldn't be doing it, but if you can just soak it up as part of the  normal training why not? On your first marathon how do you know what time to aim for. Doing this gives you a good idea and is a massive boost to the confidence.

Disclaimer : Of course I am not recommending this to anyone and I don't know any schedule/expert who does recommend it.

cougie - weirdly there has only ever been about 4 to 6 mins difference between my half and marathon times - not sure what that says but hence my forum name!!!

One Gear - Jeff Galloways beginner plan includes one 26 - so your thinking is in line with at least one published schedule! and the target based plans includes a 30 miler for those so inclined.  Galloway is keen on walk breaks on long runs, so with one gear (and I remember your gearing being high) you might want to miss those bits!

Galloways reasoning for walk breaks is that it speeds recovery as Coughie was finding. I've not tried that before. More food for thought.

I have 2 types of long run. The one where I go out and run slow for a long time hopefully training for more efficient fat burning, and a long run that gets progressively faster, incorporating some marthon pace work. I never do the later type of run over 20 miles (too knackering and longer recovery). But the slow run, I will happily go out for longer than my estimated race time. For the slow run, I eat nothing, for the faster run its more a simulation of racing for short periods, and may have a gel or two

Also-ran -  you mention marathon pace in training and a lot of people seem to do this. But is this your marathon race pace? There is no way I could say include 10 miles at marathon pace (6:45 m/m) in a twenty miler if that is the case. I usually do one track session a week - which is much faster than marathon pace - but other than that the only time I run at marathon pace is on the day. However, I am looking for something different in my training this year so am intersted to know.

As an example this year my 26.2 training run came in at 03:13:xx and that delivered a 02:57:xx on the day but not a mile of that training run was at "marathon pace". To me that 26.2 in training is my "rite of passage" - if I run it all the way I have earnt "the rite" to do the race.

Intersting how we all end up in pretty much the same place but from many different directions!

cougie wrote (see)

lardarse - had you run more 20 milers - you may have done a faster time ?

Impossible to say for sure anyway - and it just shows that there are so many different methods - and not one definitive plan. 

 

Thats an excellent debut Pops - do you think your cycling helped ?

Yes i totally agree I may have, but it was my first one and was following Hals beginner schedule that only had one long run of 20 miles, so that's what I did just saying it's fine, to get around you don't need to to train as much as people think, I did 4:17 for my first marathon at 30 BMI, had I been 3.5 st lighter I think that would've made me far quicker than 4 more 20 milers!

Surrey Runner wrote (see)

I think the P&D program goes up to 24 for its longest run? Though am at work and cannot confirm at moment.
Some of the ultra programs I have read include runs of near marathon length.

For my last ultra the longest training run I did was 38 miles.

Running my fourth marathon (VLM) on 21 April .... however due to injuries, weather etc. training hasn't been going too well, probably about 3 weeks behind my schedule. I've done one 20 miler (Ashby 20) two weeks ago, still got niggly injuries but able to run, however don't think I'll be able to fit in another 20 miler.

Do you think one 20 miler is enough? and also being two weeks ago is it too far away from marathon (five weeks). I usually aim for at least 2x 20 miles. thanks

3 weeks out is plenty of time to recover from a 20+ mile run if you are fit, healthy and have trained up towards that distance.

I couldn't tell you if it is enough time if you aggravate a niggle / injury that you are carrying. That is a risk that you will need to weigh up for yourself. I spent 3 - 4 weeks before my last marathon with an injury, wondering if I was going to be healed in time - it made for a long 3 weeks.