Shades Marathon Training

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02/02/2013 at 08:31

Did anyone see that Horizon program on TV the other night about exercise?  Apparently, only 12 mins per month (that isn't a typo) of vigorous exercise is enough to help see certain improvements.  The program was first on back in 2012 but I didn't see it then.  It's on iPlayer now if anyone is interested.

A review is here.

In order to test the theory, Mosley played guinea pig. The metaphor was an apt one as after 20 seconds going berserk on an exercise bike he was indeed making some noises like a tubercular rodent. But he came back after one month of Hit and both his insulin sensitivity and his aerobic fitness were vastly improved. As these are two things that are likely to make you live longer, Hit, in his case, was a hit.

Any thoughts?  I thought it was complete ballcocks myself, but I do like this guy's programs and he does seem to go about things scientifically.  He did one last year on the 5/2 diet where you "eat what you want" for 5 days a week and "starve yourself" for 2 days a week and see weight loss improvements.  

Not sure how any of this impacts us on this thread, as we're obviously all highly tuned athletes but interesting none the less.



02/02/2013 at 11:37

Big G - yes I saw that TV programme, found it hard to believe but I think any exercise will show improvements in health (if you start off unfit), but the intensity of that brief time on the exercise bike was scary!  And your heart and lungs wouldn't show the benefits of aerobic exercise.  I like his programmes too.

Re your pre race breakfast, most places will do an early breakfast especially as you don't want cooked, even if they lay the stuff out for you and you help yourself and maybe make your own toast.   But just in case they don't, take a thermos flask and put cold fresh milk in it, will keep it fresh for your brekkie the next morning. Good idea to have some extra supplies of your own just in case you want to top up your pre race carbs.   Malt loaf, bagels, and the jam sandwiches

02/02/2013 at 11:59

Shades - good idea about the milk in a thermos.  I hadn't thought of that.  Thanks!  I'll start experimenting to make sure I can run on jam sandwiches too.

I think I mentioned I am planning a half marathon next weekend, assuming the number transfer goes through okay.  It is a flat course so not really similar in terrain to the North Dorset Village marathon, but I'm thinking I'm going to go for a PB rather than treat it as a LSR.  Would that be okay?  Could we then use my time to make sure I'm doing my training sessions at the right pace?  I'm still 12 weeks out, so is it still okay to be thinking about tinkering with training paces?

I am little bit torn, because I've said all along that I want to enjoy this marathon and that is still the main aim.  However, I also want to do a reasonable effort and I know I'll be a bit disappointed if I feel I could have gone a bit quicker (assuming I finish it).  I know these two objectives don't really go together!  I suppose what I am saying is that I don't want to blow up at mile 18 and really hate the last 8, but want to finish strongly. The proverbial "sprint finish" would be great  I hope this makes sense?!

I'm waffling!  I'll post my half time next weekend and go from there.  If I have a nightmare next weekend for whatever reason, I have another half I'm planning at the end of March as well.

02/02/2013 at 14:25
Shades - I don't know what you were implying

Ummm... London 50km on 17th feb... Maybe a mara in Belgium next weekend (if i can get the time off card from hubby) and maybe some days of the 10in10. I was going to use it as an excuse to see family but it doesn't look like that'll happen unfortunately.
02/02/2013 at 16:07
Steady 5 mile today felt really good, will try a longish run tomorrow and see how I go, I am away camping next weekend and I may not be able to get much running done don't want to miss two long runs on the trot.
02/02/2013 at 17:23
Camping?! In this country?

Timed mile with running club today. Went OK, 6m 20s but 10 seconds slower than last month - think may be because last time there were a couple of runners of a similar pace but this time I ran mainly on my own

My Brighton HM number arrived yesterday. Very excited, they put your first name above the number!
03/02/2013 at 06:55

Big G - yes, race your half marathon and go for that PB and if you get it we will recalculate your training paces.   In my training plans I advise racing once a month for speedwork, more race experience, pace control, and to recalculate training paces.

I know you had a rough experience in your last marathon and as long as you continue training well and on race day stick to your pre-determined marathon pace (no faster) for the first half of the race you will feel strong and you should do a good PB.

Emmy - LOL, there's non stopping you now, you'll soon be in the 100 Marathon club

S3200H - glad you're feeling OK after your bump.   Camping...eek

Slowkoala - that is fast but hard to run a mile time trial on your own.   

You really do need to change your forum name

03/02/2013 at 07:38
11 weeks to go and I only did one 5 mile run this week. My back has been sore after that run and my injured leg was sore again so I didn't run again for the last 4 days. I got another sports massage to see if that would help. During my run I noticed a marked loss of fitness.

My cough has gone and I no longer have a cold.

Going to go out on a run again today which will bring my mileage up to 10 miles this week.

Shades what do you think I should do mileage wise to get myself back up to 35 mpw and on the plan over the next few weeks assuming I am not injured? As a reminder my miles per week are shown in the chart below. I did zero miles the week after the chart ends and then 5 miles this week?
03/02/2013 at 07:50
By the way I went to the London marathon meet the experts event yesterday. It was really good from a motivating perspective. Listening to meme of the questions I have to say it really reminded me how lucky we all are to have found shades. She has guided us to where we are now and I can promise you consequently we are all more well informed than many other people.

Who was it that wants to do a 4 hour marathon? I found something perfect for you. Runners world will have 2 runners at the back of each of most of the pens who will run the race at a specific pace throughout the race. There will be a 9min/mile 4 hour runner. They are wearing backpacks with big flags stuck on them. Follow that person and you will get an even split run at your desired time! Try and start next to that person. If you start at the front of the pen, let them catch you up, and then cross the line with them your chip time will be slower than theirs and you will miss your target by the time you waited for them to catch up.

The other great tip is this. You put all your stuff in to bags before you go to the start line. These bags will be ready for you at the end of the race. However, between handing in your bag and starting the race you can get quite cold. So take an old jumper and wear that and discard it by the side of the road once you start running. It will be collected and go to charity.

I am scared about how my training has been going. Things are getting serious. I know shades will get me through this though so it's a positive nervousness rather than a debilitating one.
03/02/2013 at 10:12

I did 8 miles and felt pretty good! I think the massive drop in fitness i perceived in my last run was actually due to my cold more than lack of running. I ran much more easily today. Ok not 100% but certainly not the 50% i felt in my last run! 

I don't know whether it was wearing running tights that did it or whether it was the mental state that going to the marathon event yesterday left me in but I felt pretty good in todays run. I know i was working much harder than i would have been before the enforced break from running as my heart rate was 15 bmp higher throughout. Nevertheless I felt good and was able to keep my muscles relaxed.

I checked my notes on the marathon pacers by the way. Pen 5 will have 2 pacers running 9 minute miles aiming for 3:56:00 finish. Pen 6 will have 2 pacers running at 9:43 minute miles ainging for a 4:15:00 finish. Pen 7 will have 2 pacers running 10 minute miles aiming for a 4:22:00 finish. There will be faster pacers in the lower numbers pens and slower pacers in the higher numbered pens. These are just the ones I noted down. Hope that helps.

Edited: 03/02/2013 at 10:24
03/02/2013 at 11:25
Glad you had a good run Khanivore. How are the legs now? The VLM event sounds good. I wonder when we'll get our numbers/pens or is that when we register the week before? Thanks for tips re pace makers and keeping warm. I remember going to watch the first ever London marathon as a child and there was loads of running gear all over the streets at the start. My sister and I scooped up any good stuff and put it in bags to take home

I did a 15 mile run this morning. Went fine and I tried out a SIS gel at 10 miles. Much less sickly than the lucozade ones. Had to use some men's loos in the park at 7 miles!
03/02/2013 at 12:30
Fastkoala you get your race number at the expo I think. Some more things I remembered:

Your race number allows you free transport on South Eastern rail and London Underground.

It probably isn't worth supporters coming to the start as they will have to walk back maze hill or Greenwich tube to get out.

When you cross the finishing line it takes between 10-40 mins to get out of the secure area so make sure you add that to the expected finish time for people you are meeting.

At the end there are meeting points for each letter of the alphabet. Consider meetin at a letter that is less common such as Z.
Edited: 03/02/2013 at 12:52
03/02/2013 at 14:13
Shades - I'm only on #7 so far... A long way to go yet!

@bootsie - did you get out for a run today?
@slowkoala - I've been camping many times in the UK and love it!

Some other notes from my experience of VLM (for those that are interested)
- pacers. Yes, you're right that RW has pacers but you need to be VERY careful about not simply relying on them. I stayed with the 5hr one last year as long as I could but then just around my finish (5.30) the second 5hr pacer came by. Some pacers are good, some are not so. They'll also amend the time plan based on the response from the group. It's a great way to start and make sure that you're not too fast.

- transport to the start: tube is the easiest and its free with your bib. It is packed though so move to far ends of the train to get on/off.

Pens - they are dedicated by your bib that you'll get at the expo. Don't change's not nice to the other runners.

Toilets - ladies - there is a female urinal... It's ok nd the queues are always quicker than the normal loos.

- bags: agree it's Khani - but what I would do I'd put a 'nice' bag in your red VLM bag and order it correctly. The last thing you want to do is have to rummage at the end for a warm jacket. Also, turn your phone off

- meeting people: normally it's packed. Last year I arranged to meet hubby at the letters and that I'd call him when I was over the finish line so he'd know. But it still took us a long time to find each other. If yo an - get your supporters to hold an umbrella or something easily recognisable.

Transport at the end: last year it was a complete nightmare. We decided to wait a while (by drinking in chando's) but it was still packed and we couldn't find a taxi for love nor money.

- Chando's - St martins field. Head there afterwards. It's always packed but the RW/ Fetchies are always in there drinking the marathon.

- mile 17: if you've not already heard about - forumites are at mile 17- you can leave stuff at the RW stall at the expo and it'll be there for you at mile 17. You need to register first (sister bad habit has created a thread about it) so make sure that you go over there. It made a world of difference to me.

If anyone wants any other info - let me know

I've been out for a awful 13 miles.why was it bad? Every corner I seemed to turn put me in a direct headwind... Not a nice way to start the day!
03/02/2013 at 14:49
Thanks for the tips, Emmy, really useful, esp. re pacing.

NB I camp every year in the UK but never in feb!
03/02/2013 at 14:52
Hiya fast koala I admit I've camped in February but purely out of cheapness the nearest hotel was 200quid for a night and the campsite was free during winter. It wasn't too bad actually a the temperature was around 7-9'c.
03/02/2013 at 15:22
Ok so you don't think I am completely mad, mine along with 2 Scout groups from lodgemoor join up and go on what we call freezer camp. We will have about 65 Scouts on site so around 90 of us in total.

Just been for my 20 mile run avg pace 9.03. Quite happy with that as again for half of it the wind was again horrid Also remembered why people say that 20 is half way in a mara
03/02/2013 at 16:49

When i was done for VLM supporting a mate i was at fetchpoint and managed to be there at the finish before he got there despite going there by foot albeit running speed

We went for the far more sensible approach of meeting at the McDonalds just off of whitehall

03/02/2013 at 17:21

I also went to the "meet the experts" - @Khani, you should have mentioned you were going, we could have met up. - I mentioned it in this thread a few days ago.

I failed a geography test today - went out for an 18 mile run and ended up doing 20,  average pace was 10mm, but the last 2 miles were really hard - uphill and wiped me out!! - about 30% was off-road though, wet and boggy grass along the Thames in Windsor, then through the Great Park - windy too  - then onto Ascot, Sunnngdale, Sunninghill - some awesome house around there  3hrs 20mins running  - blimey, coudn't run 20 minutes 9 months ago 

@S3200 - nice pace - don't think I could've got close to 9 mm

That's the furthest I've ever run and it reminded me of how tough the marathon will be, still got time of course. I'll do a shorter LSR next week and have the Portsmouth half in 2 weeks. - some great runs for other Shadies too - nice work 


03/02/2013 at 17:55

16 mile LSR today. the first run after turning my ankle playing squash last monday and only the second since the start of the snow about 3 weeks ago. 

first 14 miles were fine, the last couple were a bit more hard.

i think that gels with caffine in might not be for me. i tried them for the first time today and i ended up with a pounding headache, stomach cramps and an emergency stop at a local pub i happened to be passing. if i'd been out in the sticks it could have been pretty grim....

03/02/2013 at 20:00
Rattler sorry mate. I have avoided the thread while trying to resist running due to an injury. Would have loved to have met up. Did you stay for the q&a? I was the guy who asked the question about why I was so much quicker in the cold
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