Shades Marathon Training

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13/02/2013 at 09:18
SHADES wrote (see)

Nobody really knows how they are going to feel during a marathon and that doesn't just apply to marathon virgins.   Those of us that have done a few marathons still respect the distance and know that we too could still have the day from heaven or hell.

I *definitely* agree with this.... Although saying that - time is a wonderful healer and you forget about the pain soon after 

The distance is nothing to be underestimated and it's the long runs that you're doing now that will put you in good stead for the last 6 miles of the marathon.

SHADES wrote (see)

Emmy - great race report, you look so cold


Mowzer - words fail me, you are amazing.   I'd love to be there when you tell your physio what you've done.

I was a little. There are a few more on Facebook but I look absolutely awful in them 

@Mowser - YOU ARE AMAZING. A serious inspiration to a crazy nutter like myself! How on earth did you manage it? How are you feeling now?

I managed a 5km run yesterday with hubby averaging 10.15 pace (as a "recovery" run).... felt a little rough but feeling a lot better today.

13/02/2013 at 09:56

Mowzer... Amazing running, makes me feel like a real wimp when I read what you have done and I am dithering about a couple of sand dunes... Big_G perhaps you should have a new question :" What would Mowzer do"?!!

Shades, thank you for the advice re trail distance, have now entered for the 18k - NOT what Mowzer would do I suspect!

13/02/2013 at 10:22
SHADES wrote (see)

sleaver - are you doing your long runs at marathon pace?   Post your time for your half on Sunday and we'll look at your paces

I'll post my time on Sunday but in the mean time, the last half (race not training) I did was in October and my time was 1:43:45.

That's what I started basing my times on, so give or take a 3h40 marathon. However, while that time would be good, I've started to realise that as it will be my first marathon, I should may be looking at finishing first rather than a time and therefore, my LSR times are sort of becoming my marathon pace times if that makes sense.

If it helps, I was initially thing that if I trained at 3h40 pace, then 4 hours should be comfortable enough if the wheels started to come off.

13/02/2013 at 11:44

I blame Shades! After running and racing for a couple of years - including two 20 milers which I found I enjoyed - I followed Shades plan, became inspired by this thread and found out that there were a lot of 'nutters' out there. Rest is history!

Sleaver - I sometimes find our club runners (and others) under-estimate the time it takes to complete a first marathon and get very dejected when they finish way over what they expected. I suggest they take their half time, double it and add an hour. They can then aim for around x hours (not 'must be under x hours') and are delighted when they invariably finish at approximately that time. You can always speed up if you're still full of beans at 20 miles! Also if you have an enjoyable run and are satisfied with your time, you will sign up for your next marathon, where you can aim for a faster time and get a pb! (This doesn't apply if you're a really speedy club runner, under 30, or a Kenyan!!)

Need to get out for a run now, but it's so cold.(I definitely feel the cold more as I get older)

13/02/2013 at 13:06

Emmy - that's a tough recovery run pace!!

Sleaver - Good luck for Sunday.   Will look forward to hearing how you've got on.    You still haven't said if you're training at race pace for your long runs though.

Mowzer - great posting and you are so right.   The marathon is an unpredictable beast.

How's the foot?


13/02/2013 at 13:49
SHADES wrote (see)

Emmy - that's a tough recovery run pace!!

You're telling me.... It was not a pleasant run! I had a question on my thread about runs in between the races for the next 2 weeks. Should I look at more 5,8 milers? or what do you recommend?

How are you feeling about your training? All ready for the next race?

13/02/2013 at 13:49

Mowzer - Nutter, nothing more to say.

VR - Signed up up Netflix a few weeks back & just started Season 4 of Breaking Bad, it's just brilliant. Can probably add what would Walt do onto the Jack/Bear saying! How far have you got ?

Good luck with the Brighton half those that are running it.

I may get the bike out this weekend ? ,or should I rest completely ? a swim maybe. I go out for a walk most lunchtimes and no pain or discomfort at all with walking. Just when I do a calf stretch with bent knee (pointing to the Soleus as you said Shades) is when I feel it most, straight leg calf stretch is fine. Can also do calf raises (on edge of step) with bent or straight ok. I'm going to leave it until Monday before I run though...he says

13/02/2013 at 14:48

Afternoon boys and girls. Hope you are well..

I have a plan i am following and today i have to do some speed work.It goes like this.

1M jog, then 16 x 200m at mile/5k speed(or 40 secs), with 200m (or 1-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog

I was wondering if i could change it to 8x 400m runs with 400m recovery. would it still have the desired effect. (totally knackering me out) lol


13/02/2013 at 15:11
Iain Love wrote (see)

1M jog, then 16 x 200m at mile/5k speed(or 40 secs), with 200m (or 1-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog

I was wondering if i could change it to 8x 400m runs with 400m recovery. would it still have the desired effect. (totally knackering me out) lol


god knows mate, all looks like gibberish to me. you lost me after "1m jog then 16 X 200m..."

13/02/2013 at 15:22

well that was exactly what i needed after sunday's abortive 18 mile LSR (struggled with 10min pace, blew out after 7 miles, came home feeling wretched).

10 mile MWLR, kept to my 10min slow pace which felt like a nice stroll (how different to sunday, same pace!!) and then caned the last 7 miles at an 8:27 average. i know i should be sticking to the schedule but i was feeling great and kind of needed the pick me up. the thing was that even at that pace i felf like i could have done a few more miles.

wierd how your mood can change so much from one run to the next. i suppose as you get more experienced you get used to these fluctuations in performance, but as a newbie it's all very strange.

13/02/2013 at 15:27

Weird this running lark eh Sofaboy! ,get that all the time..can quite happily churn out an 8 miler at 9min & then struggle running a 5 miler at 10min. Then 18 feels easy & a 13 the following week is 10x as hard at the same pace.

With no massive difference in diet/hydration/sleep it just doesn't make any sense, I've given up trying to understand it all. Just normally know in the first few miles whether it's going to be a good un or a struggle.


13/02/2013 at 16:12

VR - I used to be a member of Netflix, but I gave it up about 12 months ago.  I may have to have another look at it.

It's been a miserable day here, weather-wise....cold and rainy.

It's club training tonight.  I expect I'll do one of the following sessions; either a) 4 x 1 mile loops around an industrial estate, or b) Reverse Kenyan Hills (3 blocks of 5 efforts. Jog down, run hard up).  That hill session sounds tough, but at least it's staggering distance from the club meeting place where as the industrial estate is about 1.5 miles away.....

13/02/2013 at 18:05
SHADES wrote (see)

Sleaver - Good luck for Sunday.   Will look forward to hearing how you've got on.    You still haven't said if you're training at race pace for your long runs though.

Erm, I kind of did.

Going by the McMillan running calculator, my fastest 10km and HM times give an estimated time of, give or take a few minutes, 3h40. So for the easy and long runs, I've been aiming for 8:50 per mile, but it's been more around 8:50-9:10.

However, I've NOW started to think that I should be worrying more about finishing as it's my first marathon, which also follows partly what Mowzer has said. Therefore, based on that, if I am to aim for a slower time, I have been training at marathon pace in the past week.

So, do people think I should aim for a slower time? If so, then I can revise my paces.

Mowzer - My fastest HM to date has been 1:43:45, so for arguements sake 1:45. If I double that and add an hour it gives 4:30. On Saturday I ran 18.4 miles in 2:46. Now I know another 8 miles on top of 18 is very different to just 8, but could those last 8 possibly take 1h45? Or am I in for a right treat when I get past 18/20 miles on the day pain wise 

Sorry if what I'm saying sounds daft to people who are used to this, but I have no idea what it feels like to run a marathon.

13/02/2013 at 18:35
That is the point Seaver until you have done the 26.2 miles you have no idea. You may hit 20 mile and feel fine and be able to finish at a good pace, then again you may get to 20 and have to slow right down. I found the last 6 mile one of the hardest things i have ever done.

Just try and enjoy it and adjust your pace as required, once you have done one you will known where you stand. Aim for just under 4 hr and pick it up at the end if you can
13/02/2013 at 19:09

Somewhat snowy today, 2-3 inches by the time it switched to rain around lunchtime. Now pissing down washing the non road based snow away too.

Probably be a tad wet tomorrow if i get up for a run

13/02/2013 at 19:29
Lots of snow in lodgemoor, very windy and some hail that hurt a lot. 6.5 mile done and thought my ears were going to drop off

Treated myself to some new trainers and tights today though
13/02/2013 at 20:55

Really cold here and we've had a bit of snow too. Went on my MWLR - 8 miles - 5 at MP and 3 at HMP - wanted to up the speed a bit as didn't get out for my tempo yesterday and I am doing the Brighton HM on Sunday. Have a coupld of small blisters on the end of my toes. Don't usually get them but I think my toes swell a bit in the cold and this is what causes them.

Mowzer - a big well done, but you must be mad. I was hoping for sub 4 hours in my first marathon, but going by your calculation, I would need to get 1h 30 or less in my (first) HM on Sunday and that is never going to happen! Agree though that we marathon virgins need to respect the distance and expected the unexpected. From all I've heard, there's a big difference between 20 miles and 26 miles and I guess the marathon is different to other distances as usually the first time you run the distance is in a race (compared to say my first 10k when I had run up to 10 miles in preparation). 

Good luck to everyone else doing Brighton this weekend. I've heard that the sea breezes can be quite tough. Hope it's not wet AND windy! ALso hope they get the distance right this year as I heard that last year it was more like 13.5 miles



13/02/2013 at 21:41
KingKenny - I've finished all the series of Breaking Bad! But there is still about 8 episodes that are being released this Summer. Can't wait! Then that will be the very end. I used to like the Walt character but now I want to punch him in the face!

I've just come back from one of the sessions Big G described. 4 x 1 mile. I almost binned the last one but I carried on. My legs are officially DEAD! Lol!

How did you get on Big G?
13/02/2013 at 22:33

I did the hill session, and it was tough but it was a good session.   I should have taken my HR strap, but below is the elevation with the first 1.5 miles or so being a warmup.


14/02/2013 at 07:23

Emmy - you just need to tick over inbetween races, recovery runs followed by easy runs until you feel 100% again.   What's the race after the 50km?

I'm woefully unprepared for my double marathon at the weekend but I'm not concerned.  I never normally race this early in the year so I'm hoping to just enjoy the weekend.

KingKenny - don't cycle unless that is something you normally do, just rest and walking will be fine.

Iain - eek!! both sound like tough sessions. Personally I'd go for the 2nd option, a good test of pace control.

Sofaboy - I'm so pleased you had a good run  and confidence is restored.

Sleaver - your long run pace should be at least 60 secs per mile slower than your marathon pace, and preferably slower than that.   If you train at marathon pace by race day there is nothing left in the tank.   These threads are littered with very unhappy runners that ran their long runs faster than their marathons.

Slowkoala - that's not good re the blisters. If it happens in your race we'll need to sort that before marathon day.


Short run for me today to test a new pair of shoes for Saturday's marathon.  Suddenly realised last night that for 2 races I'd need 2 pairs of race shoes and I only have one pair on the go at the moment.

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