Shades Marathon Training

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Today at 07:09

Emmy - I'd quite happily take a chilled banana flavoured milkshake at a drink station in place of water or any other sugar products during a marathon but don't think the logistics would be possible.  So I understand what Noakes means about the milk.

Do you think you drink too much water during a marathon?

Big G - a hot desk at Chelston  would be a great option and some new running buddies too.

Re the Paleo I did look at it.  Am I right in thinking it's little or no dairy products?   I drink a lot of milk and that was reason enough for me not to consider Paleo.

Iain Love wrote (see)
Just a quick note. VLM ballot results are out today... So watch your doorstep for a red or white mag...

Busy day for you then at the PO!  I haven't entered so no mag for me.

mamafox - I think you should do at least one 30+k and if you're happy with how that goes then you don't need to do any more, you have a lot of base miles in the bank so I think one will be enough. 

Edited: 01/10/2014 at 07:11
Today at 08:07
Slowkoala wrote (see)
Got loads of Marathon Talks to catch up with. Currently listening to one featuring Jo Pavey and Liz Yelling - bit dull really - they've both been telling each other how wonderful they were and are for about half an hour. Should try and find the Noakes one instead.

 I'm glad i wasnt the only one thinking that! I'm the same with no sugar. There are still people who are amazed that i dont drink coke anymore!

Shades - i've had a few times where i've been borderline for drinking too much water. Mainly in hot weather. I try to make sure that i take on electrolytes as well but it can be difficult. It's also been more apparent when i dont take on as many gels. If i'm taking it easy I can go on 2 gels for a marathon and that's it. I'm trying to work it down as Big G is but its not always easy!

Mamafox- fancy sending your weather my way? Cold and misty this morning.

Iain - i'm waiting for the email as i decided to do overseas ballot for the first time... i'm anxious because i already want to book in my calendar for next year!

Today at 08:09

Shades, dairy is allowed in paleo.  The things that are cut out are sugars and carbs.  Below is a copy and paste from  Like I mentioned, I personally am not following this to the letter by any means so count myself as "semi paleo", but do generally feel better for it.  For me, I do find it interesting that I have fairly easily maintained my weight even when I was doing little exercise.  In the past when I haven't exercised I very easily put weight on, which is exactly the predicament that Noakes describes.

Also, please note that there are people who strongly oppose this so maybe read up a bit about it if you're interested if you want a "balanced" view.  I say "balanced", but a lot of the comments from people on the Internet are far from balanced and at the end of the day what Noakes was saying rang true with me so I decided to give it a go. 

Very roughly, my meals are now:

Breakfast:  eggs, avocado and tomatoes, sometimes with bacon for a treat.  This is all fried in butter (apart from the avocado) and not oil.  This used to be cereal and/or toast.

Lunch: salad of tomatoes, cucumber, cheese, nuts, sweetcorn.  This used to be sandwiches, crisps and yogurt.

Evening meal: Chicken, sweet potatoes and veg, for example, although I do still eat white potatoes as well which strictly speaking should be removed.  This used to be mainly pasta and rice based meals, with more often than not some kind of bread on the side.  

Snacks: fruit, and this has always been the case although I've mixed it up a bit.  I still eat bananas too, which strictly speaking should be reduced.  I've always had plenty of water and never drank coke anyway.

From that website I mentioned:

Foods that Tim Noakes has removed from his diet

- Sugar (Must be completely removed from your diet) 
- All sugary drinks including cola drinks and sweetened fruit juices Bread
- Rice
- Pasta
- Potatoes
- Porridge
- Breakfast cereals
- Some high energy fruits like bananas
- All confectionary – cakes and sweets
- Desserts containing sugar and carbohydrates
- Artificial sweetners and products containing these products (like “diet” colas)
- Vegetable oils containing high concentrations of omega 6 fatty acids

He also warns everyone to be very wary of so-called “low-fat” “healthy” options, yoghurt especially, since these are laden with sugar and so are less healthy than are the full fat options.


Tim Noakes restricts his food choices to the following food and beverage groups: 

- Eggs – from free range hens
- Fish – an excellent source of omega 3 fatty acids
- Meat – not processed and preferably from sources that are organically raised eating grass. This group includes biltong, preferably game or ostrich.
- Dairy Produce – milk, cheese and yoghurt – all full cream and from organically fed cows.
- Vegetables – mainly leafy, low carbohydrate sources like lettuce but also including broccoli, tomatoes, mushrooms, onions, avocado and many others. The choice is based on their nutrient value and their low carbohydrate content.
- Nuts – especially macadamias, walnuts a

Today at 08:10

Post got cut off:

- Nuts – especially macadamias, walnuts and almonds but specifically excluding the non-nuts, peanuts and cashews which are high in carbohydrates.
- Fruits – only those which have a lower carbohydrate content like berries and apples.
- Water, tea and coffee (all unsweetened)!

(I should add that I have also not gone organic/free range, but this is mainly due to price).

Edited: 01/10/2014 at 08:13
Today at 08:24

Big G - that's really interesting.  I did Google the Paleo diet and it did say no dairy and no legumes and no grain, but I guess the no dairy was for the purists.

But I love my toast and am not prepared to give that up, nor the legumes, I eat chickpeas and various other types of beans often.  Broad beans are my favourite vegetable.

and of course I have a small piece of cake every day

But I've also read that a low carbohydrate diet combined with high mileage distance training will not produce the improvement that you would have by having a moderate carbohydrate diet.

But I never drink soda drinks, never touch sports drinks, rarely have fruit juice.

Today at 08:31

Shades - I think it depends on how you train and what you want out of it. I know a few people that are doing well on fat burning but these are also ultra runners so it may be a little different.

The one thing i learnt from fitnaturally was to ditch the "healthy" labels. I now choose whole fat/complete foods.

Big G - i'm loving your meals by the way.... (as she sits down with 2 eggs on toast).

Today at 09:18

Shades/Emmy - I think strictly speaking milk/dairy isn't allowed in paleo as it wasn't consumed in the "caveman" times.  However I do still drink it on its own or in hot drinks.  

To be honest, the main thing I concentrated on first was reducing the bread down to the minimum and then looked at reducing rice and pasta.  I found reducing the bread relatively easy, although I thought I'd struggle as I realised I had some bread in about 75% of meals.  I did find getting rid of sweetened yogurts very hard.  Reducing the pasta and rice was okay, but meant more thought in meals, particularly as Claire still continued with her usual diet through the pregnancy and I cooked the majority of meals.  So I'm not a "full on" paleo person by any means and a lot of this goes out the window when I eat out!

I did see the clinical psychologist yesterday and it was okay, but to be totally honest I didn't get a huge amount out of it.  He confirmed that I shouldn't be trying to force anything and did say to take it one day at a time, so that was one thing I got out of it as I wasn't sure about that.  Also, putting some kind of structure/routine in place when I feel ready, but I have been doing that anyway.

He did say something that I hadn't really thought of specifically before and that is that Claire will currently be taking up a huge amount of "space" in my head, more so than when she was alive even.  I did know that I was thinking of her a lot, but hadn't thought about it in that way in terms of comparing it to when she was alive.  I was in there about an hour and we've left it open for me to contact him again if I want (i.e., we haven't set another appointment at the moment).  I'll see what I feel like after the postmortem and the funeral.

It's a pretty tough day today with the postmortem happening at lunch time.  I'm having a blitz on the house in terms of tidying/washing/cleaning and may have a go at the garden a bit as well (I'm typing this about the garden, but I expect this won't happen!), and then a short run.  I'm seeing a couple of friends this evening, and then I'm really hoping today or tomorrow I can get a date for the funeral agreed. Fingers crossed.

Edited: 01/10/2014 at 09:20
Today at 09:31

Big G

I'll be thinking about you at lunchtime.

I didn't run yesterday as I overslept so when I woke up last night I jumped out of bed ready for my run -only to see that it was only 00.35 so back to bed till 0500.

Then went out and did four miles very slowly  - 50 mins- but even that is faster than my PMP


Today at 09:39

Big G - I hope that the postmortem goes quickly and theyre able to give you answers. If you get done with your house - mine is currently a tip and could use some TLC!

How far are you planning with your run today?

I have to be careful with dairy as i'm intolerant to it so tend to minimise the amount I have but have found that if i can do it as non processed as possible; it doesnt have such an effect on me.

I hope that you have a good night with your friends.

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