Shades Marathon Training

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Today at 08:34

Big G - are you running Bournemouth by any chance? i'd like to get around the 4 hour mark... first marathon so happy just completing without having to walk really..

Shades - Training going well, doing more weekly milage than ive ever done following your Level 2 plan.

Ive seen this on a website and was wondering if you think it is a good strategy, or i should really aim to run a consistent pace throughout.. 9:10 minute miles-ish?

http://marathonbasics.com/content/4-hour-marathon-race-strategy

here is basically what it suggests:

Section 1: 0 - 13.1 miles

Our goal is to cover the first half in 1 hour and 52 minutes, which is a 8:33 per mile pace.  This will give you a some buffer to run a bit slower in the later miles.

Section 2: 13.1 - 20 miles

For this section, we’re going to slow our pace a bit.  You’ve built up some buffer in the first half, our focus for this part is to maintain much of that buffer but not increase it. Our goal is to reach the 20 mile mark at 2 hours 58 minutes. That means we have 1 hour and 6 minutes to cover about 6.9 miles, which is a 9:33 minutes/mile pace.

Section 3: 20 - 23 miles

If you’ve reached mile 20 at 2:58, you have 1 hour and 2 minutes to cover the remaining 6.2 miles. To do this, you’ll need to maintain about a 10 min/mile pace. If you’re feeling good, feel free to run a bit faster than this pace, you have a good chance of finishing a few minutes under 4 hours

seems like a good approach, but would like to know your thoughts.. i don't really need to know this until closer to the big day i guess, but nice to know in the back of my mind if this is a good approach that i'll aim to do on the day?

 

Today at 09:19
Mr B, I'd be interested to see Shades' views on that strategy. It seems to be basically what a lot of runner end up doing when they don't train properly! I'd much rather aim for even splits. I would have thought that doing the first half at 8.5mm would tire you out so that you inevitably slow down in the second half and the problem could be that you tire more than the allowed slow down.

Big G, great to hear you've booked the full marathon at Brussels. I reckon you are nearer 3:40 shape but sub 4 sounds like a good target.

Wanted to avoid running in the heat today so set off at 6.30 am (early for me) to do my 10 miles. When I got back around 8 it was already almost 30 degrees! Glad to have it done though.

MF - thanks for asking re the foot bursa thing. It's still there but has gone down a fair bit. I don't even notice it most of the time.

Off to Lidl now to buy lots of cheap fruit. Someone gave us an old Magimix juicer and we are having a lot of fun juicing anything edible!
Today at 09:32

Mr B, I'm no expert but I don't think that would be a viable training plan.  The best option is even splits, or even a negative split.  Emmy from this forum has a phrase of "bank energy, not time", which I think most people think is a good motto for a marathon.  I think SK did a great PB at London with near even splits.  I think that plan is what people tend to do - i.e., go out too quickly and then slow down at the end (I've done this myself and it's not pleasant!), but to plan to do that doesn't seem right to me.

But listen to what Shades says  

(edited to add that I typed the above out and then saw SK had already posted something similar....)

Edited: 01/07/2015 at 09:32
Today at 11:21
That does make alot nore sense actually guys.. you hear of ppl setting off too fast and burning their energy reserves too soon.. but yeah.. itll be great to see what shades says.. negative split would be nice.. im just thinking.. if for example i aim to do a 4 mile marathon.. thats 910 mm pace. So i set out for that.. what if i had it in me to get a faster time?.. at what point would it be sensible to speed up? Im thinking maybe 23 mile mark but that would be a guess.. maybe 20 mile mark if you feel good.. not sure really..

Sk - i have a magimix blender not juicer.. does it extract the juice and give you a dry pulp in a waste bucket that you bin..or.. is it a blender.. and you throw it all in the jug whizz it up and drink it all no wastage? .. because be careful with juicing.. so much frutose and high sugars in them things.. speaking from experience.. blenders are better as you do not subtract the all important fibre from the fruit you have the whole thing.. a juicer it is easy to eat a huge fruit basket worth of fruit / fructose.. in a couple pints.. having said that.. i juiced, oranges , apples , carrots and ginger this morning.. but a blender / making smoothies is a far healthier option... either is better than a cococola tho.. swings n roundabouts i guess. Sam
Edited: 01/07/2015 at 11:24
Today at 12:13

Mr B, I've heard it said that the marathon starts at 20 miles, so if you're feeling good at mile 20 you can pick the pace up a bit then.  One way to confirm that you know what pace to go out at is to do smaller races in the build up, and adjust your target marathon pace from those if needed, using a realistic pace calculator.

I think Shades has a stat along the lines of every minute per mile you run too quickly in the first 6 miles can cost you something like 2 or 3 minutes per mile in the last 6 miles (maybe a bit out with the actual details, but the essence is there anyway).

Today at 13:15

Mr B - good to hear you're doing well with the training.

I agree exactly with SK  and Big G that the proposed method of running a sub 4 marathon that you've quoted is for runners that have not done the training.  I suggest that has been written by someone that cannot control their pace in the first half of the race.

To run your best time you should try and run an even pace throughout or a small negative split.   The best chance of doing that is to be very strict with yourself on your pace for the first half of the marathon.

Big_G wrote (see)

Mr B, I've heard it said that the marathon starts at 20 miles, so if you're feeling good at mile 20 you can pick the pace up a bit then.  One way to confirm that you know what pace to go out at is to do smaller races in the build up, and adjust your target marathon pace from those if needed, using a realistic pace calculator.

I think Shades has a stat along the lines of every minute per mile you run too quickly in the first 6 miles can cost you something like 2 or 3 minutes per mile in the last 6 miles (maybe a bit out with the actual details, but the essence is there anyway).

Along with that will be suffering in the latter stages that you'd endure from going off too fast

SK - early run for you!  Just as well as that is hot.   Much cooler down here thankfully.

Today at 13:29

You can't bank time in a marathon, unless you really know what your doing. It's so hard going off slowly though & being very disciplined with your pace in the early miles. I've been through halfway in 1:50 & 1:52 in my last 2 marathons and finished in 4:03 & 4:21 !  I Would have maybe gone sub 4 in both had I gone off at 9's rather than 8:30's .

I think ideal pace for sub 4 is 9's. Easier to calculate splits and allows for extra distance.

Shades - Yes the races are in the evening next week, all at 7 I think.

sk - Nice to be out early this time of year. I did 4m last night at half 5 & it was a tad warm. Half my water bottle went over my head at the end

Today at 13:35
Mr B, we already have the Magimix blender, but what we have been given is a 'le duo' which is a juicer. You're right of course re the fructose, but a neighbour was going to get rid of it so we took it off her hands for free! And it's so much fun (at the moment, the novelty will wear off in a week)!

I'm glad Shades agrees with Big G and I re that plan! Thinking about it, it would be like going off at HM pace for the first 13 miles and then doing another 13 miles but slower. I don't think I'd even be able to run another 13 miles after doing 13 at HM pace. I agree with Big G re upping the pace once you get to 20 miles if you are able to.

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