Speed Endurance for 10k?

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06/03/2013 at 22:04
jamie the speed sessions have been with the local athletics club on a monday night. Generally there done in time rather than distance. So it might be 3 x 10 mins one week, 4 x 8 mins another week. Sometimes they do short intervals. This monday they did a session of 5 x 2mins (90 sec recoveries) then 5 x 1min (60 sec recoveries) then myself an another guy added a 5:12mile on the end to make the session a reasonable one.

The 2min reps were getting me about 650-670m
The 1min reps were getting me about 330-350m.

Today I did 25 x 400m in 73-74seconds. (75sec recoveries)
06/03/2013 at 22:25
andy the deestrider wrote (see)
jamie the speed sessions have been with the local athletics club on a monday night. Generally there done in time rather than distance. So it might be 3 x 10 mins one week, 4 x 8 mins another week. Sometimes they do short intervals. This monday they did a session of 5 x 2mins (90 sec recoveries) then 5 x 1min (60 sec recoveries) then myself an another guy added a 5:12mile on the end to make the session a reasonable one.

The 2min reps were getting me about 650-670m
The 1min reps were getting me about 330-350m.

Today I did 25 x 400m in 73-74seconds. (75sec recoveries)

Good Lord! 25 x 400m reps averaging 73-74 secs........Ouch!

I can do 12 reps averaging 74 secs. It'll be a while before I can bash out 25.

You've inspired me!!

07/03/2013 at 12:01
I started to get jelly legged after about 15 an naturally the mind games start then, oh the joys. I started to think I should stop at 20 but managed to keep on going. Might work on the recoveries each week now. Reducing them down to 1min over the next few weeks. Then maybe start taking a slow jog recovery rather than walk. Then in time hopefully I'll be able to increase the pace of that 1min jog a little bit each week.
So if for example you do:
12.5 x 400m in 75 with 75sec rests your totaling 5k in 30 mins.
If you jog that 75sec rest you may get 200m extra per recovery so the session becomes 7.4k in 30mins. This all means that your training your body to deal with lactic acids faster their improving your threshold (key to getting pb's)
07/03/2013 at 23:01

Good strategy Andy......

08/03/2013 at 09:44

Cracking thread - took me a while to read through it all, but I'll be following this thread from now on!

I posted an individual thread yesterday, but I'll just stick to this one from now on.

In short, I'm trying to go from a 46 minute 10k PB set in 2009, to a sub 44 minute 10k, maybe even push on to 42ish.  This is the first time I've actually trained for a race, so I'm feeling confident and strong (for a change!).  The race is on 24th March, so just over 2 weeks left of training.

I ran a 6 mile tempo run yesterday morning in 42:42 - pretty comfortable until 4 miles at 7 min/mile pace, but then the last 2 miles are uphill so lost 37 seconds on mile 5 and 7 seconds on mile 6.  I can definitely go faster than that on race day, so I'm hoping to at least go sub 43.

In the last 10 weeks or so, I've been using the FIRST training plan of 3 quality sessions per week - one intervals session, one tempo run, one long tempo run.  The improvements have been huge for me!  I've just started this week to cycle a couple of times a week and I've been trying most weeks to get a decent core strength session in too with weights, stretches, etc.  I haven't felt this fit for a good number of years!

I'm 31 next week, just shy of 11 stone and about 5'9.  I'm hoping to shed a few pounds gradually to get down to ideal racing weight, and aiming for a sub 40 minute 10k next year.  Hopefully I'll get a good marker in a couple of weeks' time!

Cheers to the experienced guys for sharing their training tips - I'll be taking a lot of it on board over the next year!

08/03/2013 at 11:08

Nothing wrong with your weight at all. At 33 years old, 11 stone and 5'9 too I cracked 37 mins over 10K with 40-50 miles a week including a long weekly slow run, an interval/rep session and a tempo run (plus a few easy runs to top up mileage).

Keep yourself well nourished and that sub 40 min 10K will come in no time!!!

Best of luck....

08/03/2013 at 15:26
Ye I wouldn't get to caught up in the weight issue. At 11st your pretty much ideal really. problem is if you go leaner everyone is constantly asking "your not loosing anymore are you"? An so on. Different if youre fairly overweight or something because then no ammount of training will get you round in sub 40 but since that doesn't apply to you.......

Oh and at 30yrs of age. You literally have years of good running in you yet. No need to rush getting fit and overtrained.
08/03/2013 at 15:30
Calum.... Another thing is your perfectly welcome to follow this thread. I've tried various training methods but find I get bored of rigid plans fairly quick so tend to just go by what I feel on any one day. I still try to be fairly consistent though. No expert, I just let my results speak for themselves.
09/03/2013 at 20:02
Another rest day for me today. Ready for 6.2 lung burning miles in the morning round trafford. Rest days feel weird.
10/03/2013 at 17:22
Thank god for that! Managed a whole 1 second pb on last week. 33:26 had my stubborn head on today so thankfully didn't slow up near the end. Just ran as hard as I could tolerate today. Dont go by pace ever since garmin died. Not convinced trafford is massively quick to be honest. But hey ho a pb's a pb.

Was anyone else doing any racing today?
10/03/2013 at 21:55

Superb time there Andy......and a PB is a PB!!!

My last race was a 1.7 mile road run on Thursday night, I came 2nd and got a PB enroute. I have 2 more races this month; a 1.55 mile promenade race and also my first 5K a week later.

11/03/2013 at 12:12
jamie 1.7m is unusual was it ment to be a 3k or something. Still good though because there a good opportunity to find out what shape your in for a 5k. I reckon you have a lot to gain from short road races like that. Plus the recovery would be fairly quick to

Next race for me is thirsk 10mile in 2 weeks so need to get a few long runs in so I dont struggle towards the end.
11/03/2013 at 12:34

Glad to see this thread has been revived.

I've been struggling with injury since Christmas so no racing yet.  First of 2013 will be a HM next weekend.  Hoping for 90mins, but training has not  been ideal.  Muddy off road 10 miles yesterday, with no sign of any niggles so with any luck I should be ok.

Changed my tempo runs recently: before Christmas I was running 3-4 miles at 10k pace +10secs, but since Christmas i've been doing 6 miles at (target) HMP.

Also, I've obviously been spending too much time reading the marathon threads because I've started experimenting with faster paced sections in my long runs, progressive runs and the like.  Think I'll ditch these though as it seems to coincide with injuries. Might start using a HRM as I do a lot of running off road, so difficult to pace consistently.

11/03/2013 at 16:50
andy the deestrider wrote (see)
jamie 1.7m is unusual was it ment to be a 3k or something. Still good though because there a good opportunity to find out what shape your in for a 5k. I reckon you have a lot to gain from short road races like that. Plus the recovery would be fairly quick to

Next race for me is thirsk 10mile in 2 weeks so need to get a few long runs in so I dont struggle towards the end.

 

andy the deestrider wrote (see)
jamie 1.7m is unusual was it ment to be a 3k or something. Still good though because there a good opportunity to find out what shape your in for a 5k. I reckon you have a lot to gain from short road races like that. Plus the recovery would be fairly quick to

Next race for me is thirsk 10mile in 2 weeks so need to get a few long runs in so I dont struggle towards the end.


Actual distance was 1.71 miles around a local town, one hill. I was pleased with a completion time of 9:05. I think that works out as 5:18 per mile pace which is good for me.

I do a few short distance runs like these each year, but like you I have a 10 mile race on the cards soon..........I'm hoping for sub 60 min. Based on your recent 10K, you'll be several minutes faster than me over 10 miles, I can't wait to hear how you do!

12/03/2013 at 10:20

JAMIE thats 5:18 mins per mile as you say. good going in the 1.7mile race. that`d give 16:28 for a 5k.

 

LOU DIAMONDS gee thats some session 3-4miles at 10k pace. i can't say i have ever attempted a session like that. when you say about your long run, how long are we talking about exactly and what sort of pace are you putting in to it?

 

according to mcmillan i should be going for 55:53 in my 10miler in 2 weeks but back in February i went through the 10mile point in the wrexham half in about 55:14 i think so i think i`ll aim for sub 55. would be nice to smash second half but we`ll see.

12/03/2013 at 12:00

Sub 55 in a 10 miler would be superb; you'd likely win our local 10 mile races with a time like that! please keep us posted.

Much as I'd like to do a 16:28 5K, I really can't see myself keeping up a 5:18 pace for another 1.4 miles on top of that 1.7 miles. I always give everything I have into a given distance. I'd be very surprised (albeit delighted!) to crack 17 mins.

12/03/2013 at 13:48

 

LOU DIAMONDs gee thats some session 3-4miles at 10k pace. i can't say i have ever attempted a session like that. when you say about your long run, how long are we talking about exactly and what sort of pace are you putting in to it?

Tempo sessions are 3-4 miles at 10k + 10 seconds per mile and 'long' progressive runs at around 12 miles (5M easy; 5M MP; 2M HMP +C/D).

Some good times from you guys.  Jamie, do i recall correctly that you were looking for sub-40 10k last summer?

Edited: 12/03/2013 at 13:49
12/03/2013 at 14:50
Lou Diamonds wrote (see)

 

LOU DIAMONDs gee thats some session 3-4miles at 10k pace. i can't say i have ever attempted a session like that. when you say about your long run, how long are we talking about exactly and what sort of pace are you putting in to it?

Tempo sessions are 3-4 miles at 10k + 10 seconds per mile and 'long' progressive runs at around 12 miles (5M easy; 5M MP; 2M HMP +C/D).

Some good times from you guys.  Jamie, do i recall correctly that you were looking for sub-40 10k last summer?


Hi Lou,

It wasn't me looking for sub 40 last summer......might have been Cliff, but I'd have to check. I've certainly blathered out plenty of advice about what got me there. 

Strangely a sub 40 min 10k was what got me into running exactly 2 years ago. I managed to crack it in my first race with a lot of hard work. I got my recent 10K PB of 36:10 in the same race a week ago, so nearly 4 mins improvement in 2 years. Can't say its been easy.

I wish I knew what I do now back then; ignorance about training/diet/pacing/weight/hydration etc has caused a few plateaus, injuries and subsequently disappointing results.

Threads like this are terrific when folks are honest about their training because I must be honest; when I was starting out I found quite a few local competitors very coy about their routines and workouts.

I delight in people improving on their times, I'm only too happy to let anyone know 100% of what I do in my training and how I change things as preparations for certain race distances differ.......

13/03/2013 at 22:43
Did a cracking session today. Wanted to do a longer interval session compared to last wednesdays session of 25 x 400m so I had a steady jog for 10mins down to the local cycle path. (pan flat next to river dee) then did a 0.71m in 3:45 to see what the legs were like so was happy that it felt fairly okay. Anyway after a 2min jog the sesion got going. 6 x 1mile. 5:11 5:42 5:06 5:43 5:05 5:42. As you can tell one way was into a stiff headwind while the other way felt really warm. So without the 2:30 recoveries the session was 6.75miles in 36:10. Averaging 5:21pace. Very happy with that. Will try and reduce the recovery a small but managable ammount each week so eventually it get down to 1min walk recoverys. This atleast keeps the session relevant to 10k racing.

Have been looking at the english half marathon in warrington in sep. Might stick an entry in if no other 10k races come up in july/august time. I feel this would be good for 2 reasons:

1) something different as only 2 other races this year wont be 10k by the look of things so good for motivation.

2) a sub 70min half is looking like an achievable target (3:17pb needed) but this could be a good benchmark as it would require raising that all important threshold pace ready for next years racing.
13/03/2013 at 22:53
andy the deestrider wrote (see)
Did a cracking session today. Wanted to do a longer interval session compared to last wednesdays session of 25 x 400m so I had a steady jog for 10mins down to the local cycle path. (pan flat next to river dee) then did a 0.71m in 3:45 to see what the legs were like so was happy that it felt fairly okay. Anyway after a 2min jog the sesion got going. 6 x 1mile. 5:11 5:42 5:06 5:43 5:05 5:42. As you can tell one way was into a stiff headwind while the other way felt really warm. So without the 2:30 recoveries the session was 6.75miles in 36:10. Averaging 5:21pace. Very happy with that. Will try and reduce the recovery a small but managable ammount each week so eventually it get down to 1min walk recoverys. This atleast keeps the session relevant to 10k racing.

Have been looking at the english half marathon in warrington in sep. Might stick an entry in if no other 10k races come up in july/august time. I feel this would be good for 2 reasons:

1) something different as only 2 other races this year wont be 10k by the look of things so good for motivation.

2) a sub 70min half is looking like an achievable target (3:17pb needed) but this could be a good benchmark as it would require raising that all important threshold pace ready for next years racing.

 

Good Lord Andy, thats a wacky session!

Tomorrow its a 6.5 mile tempo run for me at 6 min mile pace.

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